With eighteen books and counting, Tracee is a prolific author in the writing and publishing business for more than 20 years, continuing to pen her own works while finding time for a day job, passionate community service and advocacy, plus helping other aspiring writers, write, publish and market their books. Before Tracee ever entertained the idea of writing full-length novels, she was a poet contributor to alma mater’s literary magazine and has contributed to many online and print publications. Find out more about her at https://traceegarner.com/
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TRANSCRIPTION STARTS HERE:
Kat
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Pencils and Lipstick. I’m Kat Caldwell, and this is Tracee Gardner with me. I am so excited to have Tracee. I met her at the Write Women’s Book Fest. I think that’s the whole name of it just a few weeks ago. Hi, Tracee. How are you doing today?
Tracee
Hey, I’m doing good. How are you?
Kat
I’m good. I’m excited to talk to you. I saw you like, kitty corner, I guess, to me in the tent, and I was like, looks like she has a. It got cold in it, and it was warm out of the tent.
Tracee
That’s the oxymoron.
Kat
It’s so weird, but it looks to me like you had all these books there, so you had been in the industry for a while, and I was like, I need to go talk to her. Plus, your covers are beautiful. And so it turns out you’ve been in the business for 20 years, so I am excited to talk to you. Could you tell us this story that I have seen on your website, of how you came to be a writer?
Tracee
Sure. I entered a writing contest. It was during a very volatile time in my life. I was about 23 years old, and I had actually been through some, two types of rejection. Relationship rejection from somebody that I liked, and he couldn’t really handle that I was a person with a disability. And also the rejection of we writers can’t accept MAs. Like, I rejected it. I got rejected, and I’m rejected. So during that class, I would just write on the back of the paper where there was a problem I couldn’t solve, and I would just escape into myself, and dream about wonderful things and guys who don’t reject you and made, like, a beautiful love story. What I felt was pretty good. Because I would read it and be like, oh, my god, who wrote this? I printed off my writing and computer lab for all the millennials and above. We had a computer lab full of computers, where you would go and do your work. You can type your term paper, because I didn’t have, I have a computer at home, but I think I didn’t have a printer or something. Or I wanted to say, I’m the reason people charge, like, 10 to 15 cents page. Like, how’s that for an accommodation? But yeah. So I would print out my massive manuscript, and all the people would gather around the printer, like, waiting for their own stuff to come out. And there was one printer, millennials, that you had to go to, and they would print out a page that had your station number and then print out your station and separate it for privacy. So people would go around the printer and be like, wow, who is hogging the printer? And I’ll be standing there like, I don’t know who’s doing that, how terrible! And then when everybody rushed back to their stations to print their work again. I would take everything that was on the printer because it was mostly mine now. Anything that wasn’t mine I’d put back in piles.
Kat
And your student ID, you got to take that so they don’t ask you.
Tracee
Actually, we didn’t even have to have a students ID. We just had, like, a number on the computer and it printed out the paper, which is a lot of paper wasted, by the way, printing the cover sheet. And you just took, you know, and if it wasn’t yours, you just put it in a pile beside the printer and somebody would claim it eventually. I would, like, put them in my coat and like, in my bag and walk away, or I usually was done and I’d just run out of the building like I stole something, which I actually probably did. It was a wonderful time. But winning the contest, I won, and I got a trip to New York. I got a $500 allowance. Which is a lot to a 20-something. And publication of the book, so that was just amazing. Yeah, it was great. And they paid for my parents and us to go, and we went to this restaurant and I went to the offices in New York. And I always forget that part, but I did go to the New York offices for one of the Big Five to meet with the editor at that time in her office. It was just amazing.
Kat
That is so fun. That’s like a dream. This is still like, before self-publishing and all that, so to have that happen with your first book is just like a dream come true, for most of it was.
Tracee
It was a dream come true. And I took that MA for Liberal Arts again, with my win and kind of the backdrop, and I actually passed. The main thing out of that is just the validation and the confidence that I received, and that helped kind of lift all the boats. All my life boats.
Kat
Had you thought of being a full-time writer before then, or were you really just doing it for fun, just to escape?
Tracee
No, I was really doing it because it was like the fallback plan. If the MA of Lib Arts just prevented you from graduating, well, golly, your life is over. I just did it as kind of like, that was what came to me. I was actually crying one night, and I was like I was just kind of like having, like a sob snotfest, and I saw the contest online, just surfing the Internet, and it kind of spoke to me. I wasn’t even sure I was going to win, but I almost felt like I really was going to because it just seemed like it just was like going through a forest and then finding, like, I don’t know, Tom Hanks finds a boat or something in Cast Away, like, that’s how I literally felt like it was. Just kind of a clearing. And this contest appears, and it’s like, enter me. Like, I felt like, God was saying, do this, stop crying, grow a pair. Like, get over yourself, get it together.
Kat
I gave you some talent go use it.
Tracee
Yeah, go use it. Do something like, this is not the end of the world. Just because you, actually I was going to community college at the time. Really? You’re going to let community college take you out? You haven’t even gotten to the four year school yet. But yeah, I went on to graduate my Associates, and then I went to get finished my Bachelors at ODU.
Kat
So you didn’t even quit school? You were like, I still got to go to school.
Tracee
No, I didn’t quit school. I just felt better about myself, help with my self-esteem, and I got a tutor. I think I also realized there are tools, there are things you can kind of do when you first go. There isn’t really orientation is kind of a joke for college. It gives me real resources and tools and smart people who are ahead of you and in AP courses to come and tutor you. And that’s really what I got after winning that. And I didn’t even know some of these things were available to me, but just reading and researching and even just writing my book, it was all just a growth spurt, as far as what I can do.
Kat
That’s really cool. I left college and was like, thank God.
Tracee
No, I did too. But it took me forever. It took me twelve years to get through my entire academic program, but I was writing books, and that was kind of giving me a little push. That was like, you go to your college professors who kind of look down at you sometimes like, what are you, little minion? And you kind of like and at one point I was thinking in my head, you’re giving me such a bad grade on this paper. And I’m like, I’m going to be published. Are you published? You just kind of like, develop just a different view because that’s all of them want to be. Is like published, the gold Holy Grail for them, right? And then if you’re able to do it in your 20s I’m not saying that I’m not being conceited or over arrogant, but I needed that to boost me. Maybe you’re a bad grade, then your red pen boosts you. So let us all find something that helps us all. I just felt, and having a disability, too, I use a wheelchair, just felt put down upon me sometimes. I didn’t get the help that I needed. And so winning was the one thing I was like, I wanted something. I didn’t have sports. I didn’t play sports. I didn’t even have chess. I didn’t have anything where I was in kind of a competition and I could measure my abilities and skills against other peers. I didn’t have that. So the contest embodied so much more and I’ve been talking about it for 21 years and people who listen to me a lot are probably like, oh my god, why did she stop talking about it? But I wish people could just realize the deeper impact it had on me and my entire life.
Kat
Yeah, that’s a fair point though, like for someone who couldn’t do another competition. Because so many people get validations through like I mean, they still have their high school trophies or whatever. That was the first time that you had that validation.
Tracee
And they lose, and they still get pizza! What is that about?
Kat
Writers don’t get that. Nobody gives us a gold medal just for participation.
Tracee
That’s right. So it’s hard, so I knew that that one thing was like my sports, my soccer mom. There was that one moment my mom was like, yay baby, go. It just was so much more. I wish people could understand, so much more. You just won a little writing contest.
Kat
No, it’s a big deal. If you’re in the writing world, you realize winning a full publishing contract with BET, like, that’s a big deal. So after that, writing the next book, did that come pretty quickly or did you kind of go, okay, wow.
Tracee
Yeah, the next two books came really quickly and I submitted them and having the contest win was a big help because they knew me, they had judged the contest, they had read the book that I submitted for the contest and then I submitted two more books to get published and they published like in 2003 and 2004, and I won the contest in 2001. So I was able to write them pretty quickly. That’s the only thing that kind of that I lament about my entire career is that I have never really written as quickly as I did then. And I know that was just a mix of the excitement. Some of it is probably youth and not having many competing interests. Now I am working. I do have a regular job, by the way. I’m not writing full-time, but also just publishing all these books, that I have learned to get faster just by reading different books. There’s like rapid release book and there’s a couple of other things and using dictation has been really helpful. Okay, so I’ve used dictation only in the last two or three years, and I only really use it when I’m getting stumped and at night when I can’t sleep. So I just pull out my phone and I just open an email and just press the mic button. I’m able to get 2000 words. Some of the end of it is a little bit questionable.
Kat
As you fall asleep?
Tracee
Yes, as I fall asleep. And I kind of look at it in the morning like, what’s happening? But that’s just, you know but that’s okay. 1600 of that is really good, usable, lucid stuff.
Kat
I’ve heard a lot of people talk about dictation, and I try it on and off, and I can dictate almost notes or like, thinking through when you get stuck and you’re like, okay, wait a minute. How old would they be that year or whatever? And I’ve tried to do the full on what I would see it, but I don’t know. My brain almost can’t work that fast. Did you have to train yourself, or did it come pretty naturally to you or how was that experience?
Tracee
A little bit of both, I think I read some stuff on it. I tried it, and also I almost enforced too. So you kind of have options in that I’m not able to write, I sleep on my side. I’m able to use my phone, and I always have my phone just for an emergency. But it’s just I want to get the book done. I know that I’m thinking about a scene, and there are some little tips and tricks that I’ve developed. One is, take the last paragraph of what you’ve typed and put that into the notes and then read it aloud. And you would be surprised. You may be able to keep going. So that’s just one little tip that I did, because starting with blank is hard. But if you can kind of give yourself the tail end of that, I usually do the tail end of the chapter that I finished, and I just put the last paragraph in there. I’ll read it aloud, and my brain kind of like, okay, this is where we are. Let’s keep going.
Kat
That makes sense.
Tracee
But starting from scratch, I would say, is difficult, and it doesn’t always work. Sometimes you also have to start with trash. They say write trash and then improve it. And that is true too. So just maybe just start talking. He said, she said. Maybe stay a couple of lines of dialogue, and then you may be able to keep going. Okay, that’s like my one tried and true tip. But there are many others. There was even a workshop I attended recently by someone I want to say, he created Dragon. And just, you know, I’ve never bought Dragon. I’ve never used Dragon. I think I used Dragon once at work. It is expensive, and then it takes time to learn. The artificial intelligence now for your voice is so great. And the other thing that I noticed is when I email a chapter to myself, the words kind of are already there. They know it’s like the artificial intelligence is combing your emails looking for stuff to sell to you. But they also know, like, names like Jojo or Almontes. Those are two names that are in my contacts. They’re people that I’m writing about. And so it will start to spell it correctly so you won’t have to go back and fix it all. But if they’re in there, in your email box somewhere, the artificial intelligence is kind of like, oh, you mean this Jojo. Jojo, I’ve seen that word before.
Kat
That’s interesting.
Tracee
So it’ll kind of start to pick it up.
Kat
I’ve never used my email. I’ve always used Word or Google Docs.
Tracee
Yeah, I use Google Docs or I use I only recently started using Word because you know what, I always bought the old Word. I bought for the longest time, just until last year, actually, I used Word 2011 for Mac because I have a Mac and I still love Word, but it didn’t have the mic readily available, and I never knew where it was. So now I’m doing the subscription because my license may have expired or I can’t find it.
Kat
Yeah, or they took it from you, probably.
Tracee
Yeah, they want you to buy that. They want you to kind of hang on for every year. So just for $69. But I get all these updates, and that’s what’s really important. And the technology for the mic and the dictator has gotten a lot better with those later versions of Word. So now I’m like, all in because I’m like, well, I want the latest version, I want the microphone, I want the words to be added to the microphone. And when you use old programs, you’re only so far as they were in 2011 or whatever.
Kat
So true. You might as well use all the bells and whistles that they’re coming up with for us.
Tracee
Right. We want to stay updated.
Kat
So with your first book, it was a romance. Was it a suspense romance or was it straight up?
Tracee
Yeah, it had a little mystery in it, and definitely I’ve always been writing romantic suspense. Something about straight romance just doesn’t do it for me. Even when I’m reading it, I’m like, Is this going to blow up? Like, what’s going to happen? Not that I can’t ever read it, but I’m expecting something like, somebody is going to be killed. Is there a fire? Is there a car chase? What’s happening? So I’m always looking for that in my own reading selection.
Kat
Okay, so your characters are slightly dangerous. It kind of makes the story a little more exciting.
Tracee
They’re in danger and there’s always somebody who wants to kill them.
Kat
Nice. I like that little eye roll. That’s interesting. My characters, somebody wants them to die. Ss that just because that’s kind of what you’ve always liked to read, or you just find it more exciting to write?
Tracee
I do find it more exciting to write. It is a challenge. Sometimes I’m kind of like, well, who did what? Why? There’s got to be a reason. There’s always some sinister characters. I find that makes it more interesting. It makes it a little bit faster pace. And I do love true crime. Like, I love watching Dateline. Who done it? And I’m obsessed with missing persons. I’ve written two books about missing persons. I want to say I was in my twenties, I guess I was maybe in my early 30s when Natalee Holloway went missing, and I kind of wrote a story similar to that. I also put out the people who are missing. Not all of them, but every now and then. Relisha Rudd was a young six year old girl who was in the DC homeless shelter, and she was taken by, I think, a janitor, and they’ve never found her because only like four or five years ago, and they have Relisha Rudd Day, and she’s African American, black little girl. And I was just so, like, some of the reasons I think I write about crime is because I’m trying to put an ending on something that I just don’t want to process. It’s partly mental health, but it’s also partly let me. And it’s sad because it’s just nowhere near real life, but it gives people closure, like, I’m looking for closure in these situations. I still want to know what happened to Natalee Holloway. I mean, Jerome Vander sued and he did it again to another lady, and it’s like, where is this child? You just feel so bad. And so part of writing is the things you cannot solve. Yeah, and that’s the main thing for me. I want to put a button on things that I cannot solve, things that are deeply hurtful. And you don’t know the mystery. You don’t know what people go through. So in the case of Relisha Rudd, who was taken, I made kind of her well, loosely based on a woman that returns to Virginia looking for what happened to her sister in foster care. There were four people in foster care, and she was one of them, and a guy was one of them. He’s a doctor now, and they kind of reconnect. And she was taken, and she’s actually in, she is deceased, but at least they are able to excavate her body and find her, and that gives some closure. I just imagine the pain that people feel when you like, if I didn’t know, it’s sad to say that you almost rather know that they are dead than to wonder forever if they are not. I think that is terrible. I’m so sorry this podcast has taken a turn for the dismal and depressing, but, you know, just that that’s just it. It really is a part of the way to soothe yourself. Others maybe, who might have gone through things like that.
Kat
I love what you’re saying, because people you got to try to wonder. I think writers are like that. Like, we try to figure out why someone would do something, what decision got made, like, who turned their backs on the little girl who should have been there, wasn’t there. I think you suspense writers are so good at taking those couple of decisions that could have detrimental effects, and then as readers, we see. I’m always left with like, oh, there are so many times in life where we miss it by this much. Thank goodness. You guys are really good at seeing those human decisions that can have really devastating effects and then maybe like wrapping it up a little bit better than real life.
Tracee
Yeah, and there’s other things too. I mean, one of the other things for the main character, the sister, who’s still alive is that she was so stunted and unable to move forward with her life because of this thing. And then the hero, they knew each other as children, they were in the same foster care. His dad and why his dad lost custody of him was really because, you know, the mother died, in childbirth maybe, I can’t remember. But the mother died, that made the father drink a lot, and then he lost custody of his son. So you really get to see kind of the backdoor background of how do people end up in foster care in the first place. It’s not just because he’s a drug addict and he is strung out like he’s grieving something. There’s always a trigger. Just like when you watch Hoarders. I watch Hoarders to clean up and feel better about myself. But a lot of people watch it like, oh my god, look at this, look at this, look at this. But there’s always a death. There’s always something that caused them. They gave up on life. It’s not just that they’re crazy. They need medication and just burn the house down. There’s something wrong. They always talk about my mother died and then I started buying stuff and I’m like, well, my mother dies, I’m going to prop her up. But that’s crazy talk, like everybody has the potential to become that person and so that’s what I’m doing.
Kat
Well, and I think you’re right that fiction allows us as readers to explore, okay, if that is a reason, like either maybe I should go get some mental health help or maybe I should be grieving better or, you know. Like something that maybe people around them are saying, but they can like distance themselves through a story. And if you can help people like, oh, maybe I can forgive my dad. Like maybe he was going through some stuff.
Tracee
Right, well, the other thing is that in the house, the foster care family, it really was kind of a porno ring. She used the girl I know, it’s terrible. It’s very subtle. I don’t really mention it, but the hero always thought his dad was part of that and so that kept him from getting to know his granddaughter. So when he’s at the end of his life and he’s about to die cause he’s going to tell what happened in the foster care family. He came to that house to get drugs. He wasn’t a part of any of the inappropriate stuff, but he could never really say. But then his son always thought he didn’t really ask him, were you a part of this? He could have. His dad would have told him, no, I was just there to get drugs. I still made a mistake. But the son ended up keeping his daughter from her granddad, because we always thought he shouldn’t be around children, when that wasn’t it at all. It was that he had a drug problem and alcohol. And just a misunderstanding that occurred because of what happened. So it’s more than just the missing person. It’s all that back matter and how we miss opportunities. He could have been with his dad. He could have been closer. He does go and take care of his dad all the time. His dad complains and is ornery and cranky, but he’s still there from him, and he could have brought his daughter, had he known that his dad wasn’t.
Kat
Had he just asked, right?
Tracee
Yeah.
Kat
So how do you come up with these ideas? Is this just a compilation?
Tracee
I go just crazy.
Kat
No, but that’s a lot for each character. Like, even your side characters have a full story behind them. So what is your writing process like on really developing those characters?
Tracee
You know, I just keep wearing on. I think that, I start with one layer. It’s really like building a cake. There’s probably about three to four layers per character, and they start out probably very flat, like a lot of most people do. But I try to think about who they are. Even if their story won’t be as prominent as the main hero and heroine, I still think there’s something there because they had an impact on who that child becomes. And they’re all adults now, but I just try to pile on. If it’s too much, I will start to strip away. So it’s not overwhelming to the story, but for the most part, I pile on as much as I can. Really trying to flesh out who they are, their GMC, the goals, motivation, and conflict, and just make them have multiple issues. Not only did the heroine her name was Lidra, by the way, Lidra. She’s coming back, she was on a merchant ship. So the one issue is just to come back and find out what happened to my sister. Not to fall in love with this guy that I knew in foster care, who I did love, but what is her one goal and what are some of the side things that she really does learn but she can’t see past? Just got to find out what happened to my sister. That’s all I’m here to do. Then I’m out of here. But then just kind of getting into the family, just working through her issues. And those are all different layers that I just try to give everybody.
Kat
And do you, like, start writing before you really know them, or do you, like, write out?
Tracee
Totally, yeah. So my writing process is, I’ll start with some dialogue, and I’m a deeply emotive person. I mean, it doesn’t seem like I am, but inside I have deep emotions. I’m also empath. So I’m very empathetic. So I’ll try to get to at least page 300, maybe 250, without doing anything, just writing writing writing. Even if I have to skip section, I usually put put more about this here and I’ll bold it and I’ll highlight it yellow so that it stands out when I come back. So then I’ll try to, you know, if I’m stumped and I’ve gotten to at least 200 pages or so, I’ll go back and start to fill in. But I’m also filling in. It’s really a skeleton at 200 and also am a fan of overwriting. And I’ve actually been accused of that in some of my reviews. So I do try to tighten it up a little more. Also letting my editor know that this is a part that I want to work on. I want to tighten up these parts because I don’t want too much overwriting. But the reason why I overwrite is because I rather take away and edit and whittle down, than not have enough and be forcing myself to add more and to pad it with just random stuff that doesn’t really make a difference. So get to page 200, do the research and whatever else I need to do about the professions and the people and the characters. Keep writing until at least page 300, 350, and then print it out and read it through on paper, edit on paper. And usually my margins are filled with more handwritten notes and stuff. And then fix that. And then it’s off to the editor, cause she does her part.
Kat
She does her part. Do you see, like, as you’re writing the book, can you see once you print it off, kind of the evolution of you getting to know the characters? Like, you don’t go back and add once you figure out he thinks his dad is part of the porn ring, do you just start putting it in there and you don’t go back and add it in. You just wait to add it in until editing.
Tracee
I add in as much as I can before the first printing. So it is almost pretty much done for the first printing. And the first printing is also before any editing, any editor. I have a freelance editor. Before she comes, I will do as much as I can with it. And so that’s really important. I try not to edit too much, and I also don’t want to waste paper, which is a silly little thing, but I don’t want to print it more than twice. That’s my goal, to print it before it goes to the editor and write on it and to print it after. And actually, when my editor does things, I’ve learned to trust her. I accept all changes and print that first. And if there’s really something that I know that was like something missing that I put in here. Maybe she took it out, you know, I’ll just sit with it. And then I used to get really annoyed over changes, you know, not annoyed like, I have a tantrum, but just like, why did you do that. But now I accept all because I think that that’s one thing people need to do is to really believe that your editor is looking out for what is best for the book. Not you, not your feelings, but really focusing on the material and the structure and flow of the book.
Kat
And so do you keep the same editor for the whole series so that she read the whole thing, so she knows?
Tracee
Yes, and I think that’s really important, too.
Kat
Yeah. So you started out traditionally published, but do you still do traditional publish?
Tracee
I don’t at this time. Working full-time, I always said that if I quit and I write full time, which I do open to do with the next few years, then I will get a then I will try to get an agent, and do that. And I’ll have different editors. And I thought about doing an editor who just does the nonfiction because I have a series of books for writers coming out next year, 2023. The first one is called Author Life Fix, and that will be out in January. So, you know, I’ve thought about that, but I like the consistency of one person. We really gel together, and she’s been with me through two series and two nonfiction books. So we’ve been together for almost eight years, I think.
Kat
Wow, that’s amazing.
Tracee
And she’s been to Germany. She’s a military spouse. She’s been to Germany. We’ve only seen each other twice. That’s because she used to live here, and we had lunch one time, but after that, she’s gone on I’ve been with her before, her first child. She now has three. We just work really well. I don’t care to see you. It’s not a big deal to me. Yeah, that sounds harsh, but I’m working here’s the book. We kind of have this hands off relationship. We don’t talk a lot. We don’t gab. I’m not a phone talker, so I just don’t talk. I’ll text, and I love talking. I just don’t talk on the phone.
Kat
Especially when in Germany.
Tracee
Yes. She went to Germany. She’s back down in the States. And yes, she’s great.
Kat
That’s awesome. That sounds like the relationships that authors used to have with their editors. That trust and understanding that you’re making a product for a reader. Like you said, it’s not really about our feelings as much, but it’s like a journey to get over that.
Tracee
Trust me. Totally. I think I started self-publishing because I had a bad editor, and I don’t want to call her bad, but just at one of the publishing houses, my editor, who I love, left and went on maternity leave and then decided she didn’t want to come back and I got a new person and I just felt like this communication was off. The way in which they edited was like, take this out, this doesn’t. And I just learned that I don’t respond well to that. I like smiley faces in the margins. I like, oh, really good here, love that. Oh, what a great line. Like, I need just a little bit of that instead of just take it out, take it out, rip it, shred it. Some people don’t buy problems.
Kat
I don’t know. We’re all artists and creatives. We need a smiley face somewhere otherwise we feel all dejected.
Tracee
I mean, give me something, give me something. But, you know, yes, I think that an editorial letter I get back from her is really good. It’s kind of a chapter by chapter, this that, fix, great, goodbye. That’s really all I want. But yeah, so the other editor that I had problems with who kind of like silently pushed me into self-publishing, but I actually still lament that I was immature and couldn’t really say, could we work on our communication a little bit? I know it was 20 something, right? And so that’s one of the bridges that I burned on my journey with that particular person. I didn’t talk bad about them. I had to have like a full-time social media rant, quitting.
Kat
Thankfully, there wasn’t social media.
Tracee
Thankfully, yes. It wasn’t like wonderful.
Kat
It was like all those forums that are gone now. Thank goodness we could mature without Twitter.
Tracee
Thank God. Because I could have took one of those. But it was just the way I handled it. I don’t have any problem with how I treated her or how I just didn’t respond or I was sad. It’s just like for myself at home, I was having this kind of I can’t stand it, this is terrible. I’m going my own way. That’s the behavior that I lament, right? Because I could have just gotten over that and just kept submitting and who knows how even more ahead that I would be at this time.
Kat
Although self-publishing has worked out for you for the most part.
Tracee
I do love it. I do love it. But I just mean that I could probably have a book deal, like my 10th or 15th book deal by now. But that’s not the end all, be all. That’s no longer a goal. Because what I was going to say, on the flip side of having a traditional contract, for me, it’s stressful. It was more stressful working full-time. One summer I did 17 events. So there was a need for me to prove that I could sell out my advance and I actually ended up in the hospital. So, I mean, I already have a chronic condition and so the stress is just not good. So releasing books when I want to, finishing them when I want to. People pick on indie authors because we have soft deadlines. I still have hard deadlines. I still have the number of books that I want to do in a year, which is one, I’m happy, but I managed to do two, which one is coming out in November 30, and one already came out in January. But just being at a publishing house, I think I would be able to handle it much better if I weren’t working full-time. So that’s the qualifier for me to not be working full-time, in order to just dedicate my time to the books. But I do so much else. I mean, writing and working aren’t my only things. I’ve been president of my Washington Romance Chapter a year ago. I do extracurricular things. I coach people. I have clients and students that I’m coaching through their books, helping them get published. So I do a lot of other things. And I was doing those things at that time too. Just really having a week in the hospital, which I’ve always had hospitalizations my entire life, that’s just a part of my thing. But I know that that particular one was really stress induced.
Tracee
And I also felt bad because I canceled those events that I was supposed to go to, and that was, like, really sad to me.
Kat
Yeah, it sets you back when you realize. But having your own calendar to understand your own body, your own physical limitations or mental limitations, right, is definitely a plus for that. You’re very busy, like, being part of the Romance Writers of DC and coaching as well. When did you start that?
Tracee
So I used to teach at Northern Virginia Community College, the same college that I went to, where I won the contest. It’s a full circle moment because I went there for so long trying to finish my Associates, and then I started teaching it.
Kat
And you’re like, I am published, by the way.
Tracee
Yes, I am published this time around. What happened? Quick story is that I took a screenwriting class and I totally bombed it. There was no grade, but I was so mad at the instructor. I was like, you don’t have any handouts. I hate this class. When I ever go to a presentation or workshop, I start looking around. Does anybody have handouts? Handouts? Handouts? Oh, look at the front, no handouts. Automatically, I’m like, I don’t like you anymore. Like, why am I even here? I’m going to leave. I’m going to a workshop with handouts. Anyway, the teacher and the instructor is so nice. We’re still friends to this day. I told him, I said, I want to teach. What do you do? And he put in a good word for me with the I guess it was the Continuing Education and Workforce Development Division. And I was like, I’m going to teach how to write a novel. So I did that for 15 years, one night a week at NOVA, and it was just wonderful. And the only reason they cut all the classes, they even cut pottery, which is like, you’re going away. Why would you cut pottery? So they cut all the Continued Education classes just about three or four years ago, and I stopped teaching because they were more in favor of government contract stuff and education around that. So I’ve actually been thinking, though, in the pandemic, post-pandemic, that I would pitch again, but I have another teaching gig that I got recently that starts in November. Yeah. The first week of November, I’ll be teaching for Rosemont College in Philadelphia, and it’s a virtual course, and anybody is welcome to come and yeah, it’s going to be virtual for six weeks. It’s called write to publish. So if anybody wants to check out the Writer’s Studio at Rosemont College. I forget your original question.
Kat
When did you start book coaching?
Tracee
Yes, book coaching. Oh, because of the class, every time the class ended, it was an eight-week course at that time, one night a week, Thursday or Tuesday nights from like 6 to 9, people will be like, what are we going to do now? And so, like, the kitchen bells just went off in my head, and I said, oh, you know what we can do? I’m happy to work with you one-on-one if you’d like. And they’d be looking at me like, oh, my god, you just said something wonderful. So that’s kind of where it started. Like, the class was editing for them. They didn’t have accountability, they didn’t have weekly assignment. They had nobody reading their work anymore. Because part of my class, we read, it was only like seven or eight people, so we only had to read about ten pages, so a lot. But you got that feedback every week because everybody came to class with their comments, or they could type them and send them if they weren’t going to be there. Accountability, the coaching, the lecture, I just turned that into a private writing thing. And that was a wonderful additional side hustle, doing something that I really wanted and everybody felt better because, like, well, I guess I could, you know, and I kept it the same price as the class was, and you could have another eight weeks. And some people signed up like, three times, three separate eight-week times until they got their book done. So it’s just something wonderful that I happen to think of. I don’t want you to go either, especially if they have money. How can we keep going? That’s really where it stems from.
Kat
That is wonderful. Do you still do that privately? Like, can people do coaching with you?
Tracee
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Kat
Okay, so we’ll have those links in the show notes, and you have 20 years of experience, ten books.
Tracee
18 books.
Kat
You have 18 books now? You got to update your website. So what is the book coming out in November? Can you tell us about it?
Tracee
November is the fourth book in the Jameson family series. It’s Jojo. Everybody’s been waiting for him forever. He is the last, he’s a military guy. He’s based on my brother. Cautionary tale, never write a book based on your brothers or your brother’s profession. It’s just kind of odd and like, oh, my god, I don’t want to do this anymore. But it’s inspirational. It’s Christian fiction, but I just mean the military the militaryness. I made him like my brother, but a little bit softer. So, you know, it’s just the military experience and different things like that. It’s like, oh, my brother. Yeah.
Kat
You’re the second author that said, oh, no, I shouldn’t have done this. It was like her brother-in-law, and she was like, you realize what I was doing. So is the Jameson series going to continue, or do you think that’s the final one?
Tracee
No, actually, there’s a sneak peek of a chapter one in Jojo’s book or one of his friends. So all the siblings are done. There’s four of them. Yeah. So it’s like Jameson and family.
Kat
Nice. Okay. And then you have four nonfiction coming out next year?
Tracee
I do, yeah. Two of them are almost done. Well, the one is done. The one is actually up for review. If anybody wants a free look, you can read it. I’m asking for book quotes, though. That’s the only thing. I want to put them in the front of the print book as quotes from any authors or aspiring authors. Author Life Fix is about just looking at your it’s a workshop that I’ve done, like, four or five times different groups. And I’ll send you the book funnel link. You can put in the notes. I’m going to make it available till December 16 for free. And then it does come out on January 16. December 12, maybe, I think that’s the last day, but I can always if people really want it. So there’s 15 categories. Like your writing space, you have a beautiful writing space, by the way.
Kat
Thank you.
Tracee
Your writing space, your health, all the things that center around writing and how you can seek about fixing them if there’s some issue. Your website and social media. Do you have an opt-in? Do you have a lead magnet? So I’m just asking, at the end of each chapter, I ask you like, 20 questions that will help you fix that area. So do you have a way to get writing inspiration? Do you have a constant bead of podcasts? Of course, Pencils and Lipstick, is the number one to listen to. And then just other things you might listen to. Kind of get a feed. Like I have a feed of people that I, if I’m feeling like I’m stuck or something, I just make a list and I just go listen to them for a time. And kind of get pulled back up to kind of keep going the distance.
Kat
Of course. So that came out of a workshop. But then how did the other three come about?
Tracee
The other three? One is a republish. I really just used it as kind of a 60-page publishing action dash, and I used to use that just to give to my students. I’m going to put some more articles and things. It’s about what does it take to publish, what are the steps, and both the steps are in there for a traditional contract. And what are the steps for self-publishing a book deal. So those are in there. It’s a little bit shorter book, it’s a workbook. And then the other two is just how to write the novel, my version, how I learned how to write the novel. I feel like a lot of people use a lot of different ways, and they kind of mash them all together, kind of like religion, a little bit of Christianity, a little bit of Catholicism. I’ll have a little bit of Buddha. And, you know, they just kind of mix it all together. This is kind of like the way that I would also write a novel. And then the other one is just Story Organization. Story Organization is about it’s going to give you space to actually write part of the story. But I’m going to cover five to six ways, like the Hero’s Journey, the Snowflake Method. I’m going to just dabble in them very briefly, so that people who aren’t writing kind of know, well, let me try the Snowflake for a minute. Okay, I’m a snowflake. Let me try the snowflake.
Kat
I don’t understand the snowflake.
Tracee
That was the hardest one. That’s the hardest one.
Kat
It overwhelms me. I’m like, I don’t know. I’m already lost.
Tracee
Yes. The Hero’s Journey is my favorite. And the Mountain Arc Structure, that’s my favorite, too. Out of the ups and downs. Ups and downs. That’s really what I learned. I learned from Michael Hay early on, probably like, 15 years ago. He doesn’t do as many workshops as he used to, but he was a big time writer and teacher instructor. So I learned that The Hero’s Journey, the call to action, the climax, the rising and the rising and falling action, and the dark moment, or the day.
Kat
The dark night of the soul.
Tracee
Yes, the point of no return.
Kat
Right? It’s classic, but it works. Whenever I sit back and watch a movie, I’m like, yeah, I know what this is going to do to me. I know exactly where I’m going, but I just can’t help myself. So before we wrap up, we met in person because we did an in person event. Are you going to do any other in person events around the DC area?
Tracee
I have one last event. It’s called the Romance Readers and Writers Weekend. It’s October 29. I think it’s Friday and Saturday. I’ll just be there on Saturday. It’s going to be in Alexandria, Virginia. I think it’s at the Westin Hotel. So that’ll be it’s a full conference. But it’s also like a book fair. Author signing, multi author signing, so there’ll be tons of authors there. That will be fun. That’s my last event. I’m saying it’s my last event for 2022, but I’m already teaching two virtual workshops, one for Los Angeles, they’re both virtual, so I feel like my last in person may be this. But I do want to do a Christmas market. That’s something that I haven’t done. Yeah, I want to do a Christmas market, and I’m still thinking about it. Either. It’s either going to be at the Dallas Expo I don’t think it’s going to be there, but I’d love to. I’ve never done the Dallas Expo, and I talked to another author who has done that, and I think about splitting it up because it’s three days.
Kat
Oh, wow, that’s a lot.
Tracee
Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. So I might share.
Kat
I was exhausted after one day.
Tracee
I know. I was too, like, on the couch.
Kat
As we were emailing.
Tracee
I was going to take a break. Well, that’s why I was going to get more offers to everybody to have a day, maybe. So if anybody thinks about that or wants to. But yeah, so I just want to do one. I really hate the cold. Like, my legs get so cold. It takes me forever to thaw out and warm up. So I really don’t like warm winter events. I try to do as many summer and late spring events as I can before I go hibernate, I’m like a bear and go hibernate. I’ll see you next March when it starts to warm and late March because early March is still Golden Ridge yet.
Kat
That’s so true. Hopefully you and I will get to meet again soon since we live in the same state, although our states are so big, but still we live in the DC area, so we will figure that out. But thank you so much for coming. I will definitely have the links in the show notes for anyone who wants to do the Rosemont College or get your Author Life Fix book with the book funnel. Thank you so much, Tracee, for coming and sharing about your exciting life.
Tracee
Thank you.