With Whitley Cox
Check out Publisher Rocket here.
Whitely Cox is a romance author all of things decadent. She found support locally when she started out and has some great tips for Indie authors of all genres.
Want to get the right keywords for your book? Make sure your categories are correct for finding your readers? You need Publisher Rocket.
I avoided paying for things for years, but the minute I bought Publisher Rocket, I regretted waiting so long. I immediately found better keywords and categories for my books and saw a huge difference in sales and reviews within the following weeks.
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Transcription Starts here:
[00:00:14.350] – Kat
Welcome to the Pencils and Lipstick podcast, a weekly podcast for writers. Grab a cup of coffee, perhaps some paper and pen, and enjoy an interview with an author, a chat with a writing tool creator, perhaps a conversation with an editor or other publishing experts, as well as Cat thoughts on writing and her own creative journey. You’ll laugh, you’ll cry. Well, hopefully not actually cry, but you will probably learn something.
[00:00:43.150] – Kat
And I hope you’ll be inspired to write because as I always say, you have a story, you should write it down. This is pencils and lipstick. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to pencils and lipstick. This is episode 143 and today is October 4 as I recorded this. So I’m trying to get my recording done a little bit sooner than I usually do. So it is a hot day. We’ve pretty much been inside today. I’ve been trying to get some writing done. It’s amazing to me how the day just disappears from my little fingers. Actually, I have quite long fingers, but it just disappears. It slips away. I always wake up every day with so many things that I want to do. If I’m going for a walk or jogging or exercising. A lot of times I’m listening to another podcast. Many times it’s either the Self Publishing Show or Joanna Pens or Novel Marketing or something like that, trying to learn as I go. There’s a couple of different courses as well that I’m going through and they always leave me with such inspiration. Right. But then the day keeps going by and I just don’t seem to get as much done.
[00:02:13.230] – Kat
Part of it is that I’m revamping my webpage, my website, I guess. I’m setting up all of my coaching pages, I guess, and the class, the course pages that I’m offering for the fall. That just takes me a while to get done because I’m not super tech savvy. I can get it done, but it probably takes me longer than it might take some of you. So I actually found somebody in New Zealand to help me with my website because just felt like I was going in circles. So I think that that’s going to be a good investment, finally admitting that I might not know exactly how to do it properly. So if you head over to Catcallsville.com, possibly within the next month, six weeks, you’re probably going to see a few changes going on there, especially to speed it up and to help it well, look the same, whether it’s on a desktop or a cell phone, which at the moment it doesn’t. The other thing that I am doing is trying to lose weight. Yes, specifically. I’ve always really liked exercise. I’ve always been super active, lifting weights, all that stuff. But, man, hitting your forties is a bummer.
[00:03:49.280] – Kat
So for all you who haven’t hit your 40s yeah, let me just warn you. And nothing’s really happening. So I cheated a little bit on my diet today, and I don’t really feel bad about it, but I looked at myself in the mirror and said.
[00:04:09.050] – Kat
If you’re really going to do this. You really should do it properly. Blah, blah, blah.
[00:04:15.490] – Kat
I don’t give myself much respect as I’m my dietitian coach. Anyway, we’ll see where that journey takes us. There’s no news now. Trying to stick to a healthier snacking diet. I tend to grab carbs, so we are trying not to do that. I’m trying to eat cucumbers from my garden and apples, and I actually do eat quite well. I’m just not one who loses weight very easily. So we shall see. I have been able to keep up with my exercising routine since I’m back from Spain. In Spain, I got a lot of steps and I walked probably 20,000 steps a day. But that didn’t really help combat the beer drinking that went on. So we’ll see what happens. I am just happy to be strong. I’m very grateful that my back is doing better, my hip is doing better. I can sit for at least an hour at a time. I can stretch my body. I can’t do most of the things that I want to do in the gym. So I’m grateful to that. It’s just a bit frustrating as any of you who have gone through an injury understand how quickly you can pack on about £7.
[00:05:46.130] – Kat
I would like to lose about ten and how slow it is to get those to leave. But again, it’s only been ten days. I don’t know. We will see. I really am pretty dedicated to it. I was thinking today as I was listening to an interview with another author who has 100 books out, and I was sort of combating having this conversation in my head of, okay, working out, just like getting ready for it, heading to the gym. If you guys go to a gym or just getting out the door, doing a little stretching, maybe a couple abdominals, and then getting a shower and getting ready to go, that takes an hour and a half, 2 hours of your day, and that’s if no one interrupts you. And so I was like, okay, well, I need to write. I also want to do this thing that’s healthy for me. How do I fit it all in? That’s partly why the hours seem to slip away from me. And I have no good answer to that, except that I should wake up at 04:00 a.m. But as you all know, if you’ve been listening to the podcast for any amount of time, that’s just so hard for me to do.
[00:07:13.010] – Kat
We go to bed late. I’m not great in the morning. I like to use that time to sort of pray and have a little quiet time before everyone else wakes up. And, you know, once school starts 630, I’m up and like, dragging my kids out of bed and making sure they’re eating something semi healthy for breakfast and getting my husband out of bed as well. So doing that while exercising just doesn’t work anyway, we shall see. If anyone else has these frustrations, please let me know. We can frown our source together.
[00:07:54.470] – Kat
So I was going to say A glass of wine, but that’s not allowed right now. It’s not allowed to have that. So physically I am feeling well and that is the most important thing, I think to me at the moment, that my back is almost completely fully healed. Not all the way, but way better than it was. So as for writing, I am writing. I am getting outside the ring. Finished better. I’m going to probably put it out for Beta readers very soon, probably before the end of August. I’m really itching to work on dowser’s story. I have no idea what I’m going to call it. I’m going to have to do some research into historical romance. The first book is called Stepping Across the Desert and I don’t know if I’m going to be able to carry that theme. We shall see the stepping theme or Stepping across the vineyard. I don’t know, it sounds a little.
[00:09:01.480] – Kat
Weird, so we shall see.
[00:09:04.400] – Kat
I’m itching to start. I mean, it is started, but to continue it, I do have to check a few more things if they are possible. I think at this moment what I’m going to do is just write them and they’re all kind of side characters jobs and things like that, whether those are possible. So I think I will write and then ask questions later. That’s typically how I run my life. So I am really excited for August, Madison, Michael and I she is a romance author extraordinaire. We are running our first writing book Descriptions That Sell workshop. It is a two part workshop mostly because there’s just a lot to get through. So the first part will be Wednesday, August 17 at 01:00 P.m. Eastern. And it is learning all about what makes a good book blurb and going through the blurbs that work and why blurbs don’t work and having some question and answer time. And then the next week, the 24 August at 01:00 P.m., we will be getting back together and going over book blurbs that people have submitted and sort of going through our reviews of them. And you can attend the workshop for $13.
[00:10:29.280] – Kat
You can get a book blurb reviewed for 20 more dollars. So you can attend and get one reviewed for 33 total. I think it’s a steal because book blurbs are very important for selling books. I mean, they are pretty key after the cover and after writing a good book, but they’re kind of what gets people to actually pay the money. We scroll through whether it’s Amazon or wherever you buy your books kobo and you read the blurbs and you decide where you’re going to spend your money, even for free books. I read the blurbs. I don’t just download everything because I want to know if it’s really going to be worth my time reading, if it’s going to be something I like.
[00:11:24.740] – Kat
Right.
[00:11:25.040] – Kat
So the book blurb is what will capture people’s attention and really is the final push to getting them to spend their money. So they’re important and there is a bit of a science to writing them. There are some rules that you should follow. And all that being said, it’s still not that easy. So I send workshops on book blurbs as much as possible. I have a couple of books on them and I review them, and I constantly am honing my book blurbs as well. So I will be right alongside you reviewing my book blurbs. We’ll probably put one of mine up there and see what Madison has to say about it, what we can see. And a lot of times when we’re working together as writers, we can see what needs to change. Right? And it’s great to collaborate together and help each other out to get these book blurbs done. So I highly encourage you to sign up if you can’t really make it. If you pay the $13, you will get the recordings, access to both recordings, where you can take notes and you can learn and you can write out your book blurb.
[00:12:41.000] – Kat
If you can’t attend but you want to download it and you still want a book blurb reviewed and edited by Madison and I, you can still do that for $33. We will send you a link to upload your book blurb and you will get your feedback. So that is very exciting. And in the meantime, between that and writing, I am doing a lot of work to set up my courses for the fall. I’m very excited about them. So we have this story seedling course. I kind of liked that better than the Budding story. I’m thinking of like a flower guy.
[00:13:20.600] – Kat
Like this flower growing.
[00:13:23.690] – Kat
So the story seedling course, that is for anyone who has an idea for a book to anyone who sort of started but hasn’t quite gotten everything out and is a little bit stuck on really where to take it. So kind of beginner beginning part of the book. And then we’re going to have the story development course. Which is really for people who have gotten past the midpoint and are wanting to really make sure the last half of the book is really concrete. Making sure the first part is concrete. And really trying to understand how to go back over their manuscript before they send it out to an editor. The things that they should check for. We’re going to go over scenes, what kind of scenes they need, what makes a scene dialogue. There’s a couple of differences, not just on level of what we talk about in the courses, but a couple of differences. We’re going to review a lot more in the story development course, and both courses include 30 pages of your manuscripts reviewed by me at the end, so those will run from the beginning of September to the beginning of November, and you can find out more in the Show notes below.
[00:14:39.320] – Kat
I will have links to all of those. Today’s episode is brought to you by Publisher Rocket. Do you know Publisher Rocket? It’s one of my favorite tools. Publisher Rocket gives you the edge on Amazon KDP by finding profitable keywords and best selling categories for your book. See what hungry readers search for on Amazon. Was Rocket letting you optimize your seven KDP keywords for more sales? Not every keyword is effective, and Rocket can show you which ones are searched for most often, are less competitive, and which ones earn more money. Plus, with its AMS Ads feature, Rocket generates thousands of advertising keywords in seconds, which will give you profitable keywords so that your ads can make an impact. And if you’re going to spend money on Amazon ads, you want them to make an impact. With Rocket, you can discover applicable hidden categories that most authors don’t know about on Amazon, which will increase the chance that browsing shoppers stumble on your work and decrease your competition. Find out how many sales it takes to become a best seller in each category, as well as how much other authors are earning off of their Amazon book every month.
[00:15:57.410] – Kat
Not only that, but Rocket has a phenomenal support staff filled with real, experienced people to help you on your journey. Rocket comes with a 30 day no questions asked guarantee so you can try it without any risk. It has a single fee with no subscription, my favorite thing these days, so.
[00:16:15.870] – Kat
You only have to pay once for.
[00:16:17.370] – Kat
Full lifetime access to all its features. New readers can only enjoy your work if they find it among the thousands of other books published every day on Amazon. Great authors deserve to be read, so don’t let your book language and obscurity get your book noticed with Publisher Rocket. Now guys, Publisher Rocket is one of those tools that I avoided buying for the longest time and I highly regret it. I don’t know why. I was really tight budgeted in the beginning, but Publisher Rocket is an amazing tool. I highly suggest you check it out. There is going to be a link below in the Show notes for you to check it out. And as they say, there is a 30 day no questions asked guarantee. But more than that, they have videos on how to use it properly. Tons of suggestions, they’re really great. Over there. You can make sure that you use your keywords correctly, your categories correctly, so that your book can just bump up from wherever it is in the black hole of Amazon, right up in front of the correct readers face so that they can find it, they can read it, they can review it, and you can keep selling more bucks.
[00:17:37.050] – Kat
Check out the links below to find Publisher Rocket. Find out more information. There’s also going to be a link to a blog post which will give you even more information about it below in the show notes. So, as you can see, we are getting some more sponsors of the show. Publisher Rocket is the biggest sponsor for today’s episode, but you as listeners are my favorite sponsors of the show and we have moved over from Patreon over to exclusively Buymeacoffee.com, where you can buy me a book as the sort of cute little way to sponsor the show. There are some freebies over there at Buy Me a Coffee. There are also videos of the interviews, so you can not only just listen to the show, but you can listen to the interviews on the video and there will be discounts for the courses coming up and all these different little things that you can pretty much only find if you are a sponsor of the show. I really enjoy all of you guys talking to me, messaging me on Twitter and Instagram. You can find me on Twitter at Pencils Lipstick and on Instagram at Catcallville, dot Author or Pencils and lipstick all spelled out.
[00:19:02.390] – Kat
You can DM me there, you can ask questions, you can get on my newsletter over at katcaldwell.com and you can reach me via responding to the emails there as well. If you are a writer and you sponsor the show, let me know and I will tell people about your book. I will choose one lucky person every week or so to as much as time allows to talk to people around the world about the book that you have available. So I’m excited about the fall coming and all the new things, but right now we are going to talk to Whitley Cox. She is a romance author. She’s been in the business for a little bit and it’s fun to hear from people who really know what they’re doing and to see where they’ve come from and where they are now and where they’re going. So enjoy the interview. A Canadian West Coast baby born and raised, whitley is married to her high school sweetheart and together they have two beautiful daughters and a fluffy dog. She spends her days making food that gets thrown on the floor, smacking the interiors out from under the couch, and making sure that the dog food doesn’t end up inside the air conditioner.
[00:20:17.690] – Kat
But when nap time comes and it’s not quite 01:00 at least sits down, avoids a pile of laundry on the couch, and writes. A lover of all things decadent, wine, cheese, chocolate, and spicy erotic romance, whitley brings the humorous side of sex, the ridiculous side of relationships, and the suspense of everyday life into her story.
[00:20:39.710] – Speaker 2
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Pencils and Lipstick.
[00:20:43.290] – Kat
Today I have with me Whitley Cox.
[00:20:46.050] – Speaker 2
She’s a contemporary romance writer. I love your little tagline funny. Fabulous. Filthy Romance. Hello, Whitley. How are you doing?
[00:20:55.260] – Speaker 3
I am good. Thank you for having me.
[00:20:57.390] – Speaker 2
Oh, thank you for coming on. I’m excited to talk to you. So you write under two pen names, whitley Cox. And then I’m sorry, I’ve missed the last name.
[00:21:07.300] – Speaker 3
Natalie Sloan.
[00:21:08.060] – Speaker 2
Natalie Sloan. Now that sounds kind of like a detective. Is that a different genre or is.
[00:21:13.920] – Speaker 3
That yes, that is exclusively reverse harem.
[00:21:17.810] – Speaker 2
Okay, reverse harem. Okay. Well, we’ll have to get into that because I don’t know if everyone knows what reverse harm is. But first, let’s talk about Whitley Cox. So she’s your first pen name.
[00:21:30.410] – Kat
How did you start out writing?
[00:21:33.890] – Speaker 3
So, I always wrote in school. I was always that really annoying kid that would shoot their hand up after creative writing and want to read, annoying everybody else. And then in high school, in English Twelve, I wrote a children’s story. And my teacher was published, and she wrote up back on it, this is a publishable idea. And so he helped me work through tweaking it and tightening in. And then I snail meld it off to publishers. But I was 18, I got a boyfriend, and I sort of forgot about that. And I got rejection letters. And that just sort of depressed me and sounds like I’m not going to pursue this. But then I did an English I started an English major in university and hated the parameters of having to write somebody else’s idea. It was very constrained. And so I switched to a psychology degree and then didn’t really write. And then I got married and we went backpacking for six months. And I started reading Romance because that was what was on the givea takes a book, give a book, take a book.
[00:22:40.090]
Okay. Yeah.
[00:22:40.760] – Speaker 3
Awesome. And some are great, and some are like, this is complete garbage. I could write better than this. And so I came home and I started writing. Yeah. But while we were traveling, we were robbed. We lost our hostel, went to go and exchange money, came back, and a whole bunch of stuff was taken. And so I ran to the police station to go and report it. And lo and behold, there were two other people reporting lost passport, and they were from the exact same town that we were from. We were living in Victoria, BC. At the time, and they were there, too. Same age as us and everything.
[00:23:20.600]
Wow.
[00:23:21.490] – Speaker 3
I told them what happened and they said, Come stay at our hostel. And so we became fast friends, and we partied and forgot our woes. And then fast forward a few years later, I was at a girl’s night at this woman’s house who I met in Peru, and she had some other friends over. And I told her that I started writing and just as a hobby. And her friend was like, well, my mom’s friend wrote Hard Man to Love. And she also lives in Victoria. And so I reached out to this woman, Kathleen Wallace, and coffee, and she said, you need to join the Vancouver Island romance authors. And so I did, and I met, like, 40 other romance authors, and they were like, you need to self publish. Because at that point, I’d written, like, four or five books, and they’re like, you need to self publish. This is how you do it. And they just sort of, oh, my gosh, that’s how it started.
[00:24:14.470] – Speaker 2
Where were those five books? Were you just writing for your own enjoyment?
[00:24:18.540] – Speaker 3
Yeah, they were just sitting on my computer.
[00:24:20.690] – Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. So you hadn’t thought was it because of the experience of the rejection letters that you were just like, I’m not sure if I want to even publish these.
[00:24:28.800] – Speaker 3
I thought I was going to go traditional, and I was like, well, if I get a bunch of books all in my backlog, then it’ll be, like, more appealing to publishers. And they’re like, no, take all the money for yourself. Self publish. And I was like, okay. And so I did.
[00:24:45.550] – Speaker 2
But you already have a backlog. So literally, what a good idea, though, that’s thinking way ahead. Then I was thinking, how long did it take you to well, let’s back up first, you met this woman.
[00:25:05.910] – Speaker 3
She’S.
[00:25:06.330] – Speaker 2
An author, and you just decided to have coffee with her just to see how she writes or what you could pursue, or just like, hey, you’re another writer. I want to talk to you.
[00:25:16.300] – Speaker 3
Yeah, because I just had my first baby, and I was feeling very isolated, and I didn’t know if I wanted to go back to work. I was working as an intervention therapist with children on the spectrum, and I was like, I do not know if I can go back and do this and do the job effectively and then come home and be an effective mom.
[00:25:34.730] – Speaker 2
Right.
[00:25:35.150] – Speaker 3
I don’t know what I want to do, but I’m really enjoying writing. I’m going to find like minded people and just pick their brains and see what happens. And so I just emailed her and reached out, and we’re still very close. She’s like a second mom to me now. Yeah.
[00:25:53.930] – Speaker 2
How was it then to join this group? I mean, there’s lots of groups out there, and I know we’re all still coming out of covet, but being in a group physically with other writers, how did that help or maybe not helps?
[00:26:09.090] – Speaker 3
Super intimidating at first because there was also a significant age gap. Most of these women are old enough for my mom.
[00:26:15.580] – Speaker 2
Yes.
[00:26:16.250] – Speaker 3
And so it was very intimidating at first, and then I started publishing, and I started figuring out the industry, and then I became president.
[00:26:27.930] – Speaker 2
Nice. Yeah.
[00:26:30.900] – Speaker 3
So I was president for two years, and now I’m one of the more published authors in the group. And there’s still a bit of an age discrepancy, but I’m not the only one of my generation.
[00:26:49.750] – Speaker 2
Did they know, like, they knew about self publishing then? Did they help you a little bit in just, like, reading your stuff? How was that the first time that you handed them something?
[00:27:05.650] – Speaker 3
This is how new I was. I didn’t know I wrote erotic romance. I thought I was writing straight up erotica, and that’s what I came in saying. And they were all like, whoa, because a lot of them wrote, like, really sweet stuff, and we’re like, Good for you, but not my cup of tea. Everybody’s like, our Krajeep group was full, and so I was, like, feeling really sad. And then another author is like, no, you have a happy ending plot. You can pull the sex out and there’d still be a story. You write erotic romance. That’s big time difference. And I was like, okay, so what.
[00:27:40.260] – Speaker 2
Is the difference between erotica and erotic romance?
[00:27:44.720] – Speaker 3
So erotic romance is there’s a halfway ever after. There’s a plot. You could pull the sex out and there’d still be a story. Erotica is just straight up sex. You pull the sex out and there’s no story, and there doesn’t have to be a happily ever after.
[00:27:58.550] – Speaker 2
Really? Okay, that’s interesting.
[00:28:04.630] – Speaker 3
Yeah. Like, a woman cheats on her husband and then she leaves her husband for the guy she cheated on.
[00:28:16.850] – Speaker 2
All right, so you write Rome. So there is a plot. There is a story behind it, but it’s not closed door. I guess maybe I’m just old school. I used to be in this. When I figured out that I had written a romance, I joined the library group. And yes, the age gap was significant. I think the oldest lady was, like, 50 years older than me, so they called it like closed door, halfway open and open door. It’s not always the bedroom that’s the problem.
[00:28:51.240] – Speaker 3
No, there’s no door.
[00:28:54.410] – Speaker 2
How is it to write those scenes? Sometimes I have a writing group in which one woman, Madison Michael, does it. She’s always like, I can’t write the sex scenes when we’re sprinting together. I just can’t do so she’ll put, like, an X on the page and come back to it. Did that come easily to you when you started writing?
[00:29:21.450] – Speaker 3
It did it’s exhausting to write.
[00:29:29.170] – Speaker 2
You’re like, no, I’ve had enough today.
[00:29:31.450] – Speaker 3
I have a lot of authors who hate writing them, and I don’t dislike them, but I do find them exhausting.
[00:29:39.740] – Speaker 2
That’s interesting. Is it because you have to make something new up?
[00:29:44.170] – Speaker 3
Yeah, and also you’re just like you want to make sure that you hit all the senses and explain enough that people can get turned on, but also not get too graphic. And you want to spread the law on too long because you don’t want people to skim. Because if the sex scenes are, like, four pages long, people are going to skim. They’re like, maybe they’re doing it. How many physicians do we need here?
[00:30:13.270] – Speaker 2
That sounds really technical. I had no idea.
[00:30:17.230] – Speaker 3
Yeah, I’m choreographing things. Yeah.
[00:30:20.930] – Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. All right, so beyond my leg here.
[00:30:23.640] – Speaker 3
That’s not going to work. Got to put your leg down, honey, come here.
[00:30:27.900] – Speaker 2
We have to try this thing otherwise.
[00:30:29.600] – Speaker 3
Oh, all the time. He’s like, Go write something and come back.
[00:30:35.050] – Speaker 2
Yes. There’s nothing worse than reading a book and being like, that’s not possible. I was reading one, you know, when Kindle came out, and it was mostly romance that was on Ku. We’re talking, like, dating myself, like 20 12, 20 11, whenever that was. And there was no well, at least as far as I knew. There was no way to judge what it was, what kind of romance it was. And so you would get anything from sweet to erotic romance, and there were some I just can’t think that that would be comfortable.
[00:31:09.770] – Speaker 3
They’re all contortion.
[00:31:11.120] – Speaker 2
Yes, they’re all very flexible. So besides the erotic moments, you have, like, a whole page of the tropes that you use. Can you explain to people what a trope is? What a trope is for romance especially, and then maybe your favorite.
[00:31:32.810] – Speaker 3
Right. So, like, a trope is like a well known, typical what you would like. So people are drawn to, like, secret baby that’s very common in romance or surprise pregnancy, billionaire, military. I mean, yes, military is also a genre, but it can also be classified as a trope. It’s just all the very common sought after styles or, like, niches it down.
[00:32:05.410] – Speaker 2
Right. I romance with somebody in uniform.
[00:32:11.390] – Speaker 3
Exactly. Yeah. I was part of this beta project where another author drew in a whole bunch of other authors and put up a website, and everything was classified by trope. And it was a great idea, but there was just too many of us, and so it was very hard to be found. So I pulled out of that after a year because it just wasn’t worth my money. And so then I’m like, well, I’m just going to put on my own website. That way people can know what kind of books they’re getting if they’re interested in a specific I think it’s a.
[00:32:47.480] – Speaker 2
Great idea, honestly, because just because you write contemporary romance doesn’t mean that all of them are the same. Right.
[00:32:54.240]
No.
[00:32:55.650] – Speaker 2
So are there different tropes within the same series, or how does that work for your books?
[00:33:01.500] – Speaker 3
Yeah, so my best selling series and the one that sort of catapulted me from hobbyists to this is my career now, let’s Buy a House, was the Single Dads of Seattle. So that’s a ten book series, and that one has been picked up by a German publisher and an Italian publisher within that is like, they’re all single dads, but then one is exmilitary. He’s a former Navy Seal, so there’s some romantic in that. And they all have very comedic elements, so you could consider them romcoms. And then one is their neighbors, and. So that’s neighbors to lovers and so there’s like, tropes within the trope of that.
[00:33:49.520] – Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah, I really like that. So that doesn’t really as a writer, it allows you to have a lot more parameters to work with then. So you have like, they’re all single, but then you don’t have to follow the same trope for all of them, which is probably nice for the reader as well. It’s not the same.
[00:34:08.430] – Speaker 3
Yeah, I mean, some obviously some readers have their favorites and some were like, oh, I didn’t care for that one because it was more suspenseful or whatever, but it’s like, well, then skip that book. There’s ten books.
[00:34:21.130] – Speaker 2
Yeah, no kidding. So, yeah, you said that that was the book that really pushed you into this category. Full time writer, I will say. In what sequence did that go to when you showed up at this group and you haven’t published anything? You had five books. So take us through how you started self publishing and then when the single dads of Seattle, like, what book number that came out at I can’t really.
[00:34:51.190] – Speaker 3
Remember what book number and how many I’ve written book one was, but I think it came out in 2018. I started publishing in 2017. It was 2019 that the first single dad book came out.
[00:35:06.600] – Speaker 2
Okay.
[00:35:07.090] – Speaker 3
And it just started doing really well. I released all ten very quickly. Within a year of each other, all ten came out. Oh my gosh, I bet I wrote like, four before I released any of them.
[00:35:23.390]
Okay.
[00:35:23.840] – Speaker 3
So that way I could rapidly release them. And then I was picked up by the German publisher for that. My contact there read this first one and loved it, and they contacted me and asked for the rights to all ten.
[00:35:41.220] – Speaker 2
So you didn’t pursue that? They somehow found you?
[00:35:45.010] – Speaker 3
Yeah, they found me and offered me advances for all of them. And now they’ve purchased 30 of my books. So I just basically have to say, look, I wrote this book. You want it? And she’s like, yes.
[00:35:56.300] – Speaker 2
Oh my goodness. So when you started publishing in 2017, and just so everyone knows, there are certain genres that really get picked up really easily. So thriller and romance. If you write those, you’re like, good, and you write series. So did you know about writing series when you started publishing? How much did you know and how much how much did you purposely make happen in your career and how much just sort of happened? Like the German publisher, my first five.
[00:36:28.980] – Speaker 3
Books were part of the series okay. That I still haven’t finished. It’s a ten book series, and the last two, I’m just like, I just.
[00:36:38.980] – Kat
Can’T get there yet.
[00:36:39.840] – Speaker 3
It’s just not in my head yet. So it’s just sort of like dangling. But yeah, I started writing series because I know that series in general are more successful than standalone. I do have a few standalone. However, every single book that Whitley Cox has ever written is connected.
[00:36:59.730]
Okay.
[00:37:00.050] – Speaker 3
So it’s all in the same world. So all of a sudden you’ll be reading it and somebody from another book will pop in.
[00:37:09.260] – Kat
Oh, fine.
[00:37:10.150] – Speaker 3
Yeah. So everything is connected. All my series are connected. All my standalones are connected to my series. So it’s all interconnected. It’s one world.
[00:37:21.490] – Speaker 2
And did you do that on purpose?
[00:37:23.390] – Speaker 3
Yeah.
[00:37:23.890] – Speaker 2
Okay. And was that still thinking, like, if a traditional publisher comes, it’s sort of easier to sell, or was it just like what you like to write?
[00:37:34.070] – Speaker 3
I love Easter eggs in books. I read all the Outlander books, and then I was looking for something else that was very similar to Outlander. And there’s a series by Sarah Donate. And I read the entire series because I was promised that there would be a mention, just a mention of meeting the couple from Atlanta, Claire and Jamie. And when it happened, I was like, oh my God. Because I was just like a crossover. And so I’m like, I’m going to do crossovers because if there are more people like me who get excited, what’s that going to do? It all the time.
[00:38:14.090] – Speaker 2
I love that idea.
[00:38:15.200] – Kat
I hadn’t thought of that before.
[00:38:17.450] – Speaker 2
So do you think that that helps you then, like, staying in that same world? Does it help you in writing quicker? I guess you don’t really have to set up the world again. And a lot of times I don’t know. Does it help you at all or is it not really helpful?
[00:38:33.690] – Speaker 3
It does. I mean, I’m terrible at keeping Bibles, and so I’m constantly having to bring up my manuscripts of finished books. What was it that color again? Because I’m bringing him back.
[00:38:44.150] – Speaker 2
You need an intern.
[00:38:46.310] – Speaker 3
I do have an assistant, but I haven’t given her that ask yet. Grant me a Bible because I have several military books. If anybody needs a seal or security, I bring in those guys.
[00:39:02.210] – Speaker 2
Right?
[00:39:03.690] – Speaker 3
Because I’m like, well, I already have these guys on staff, so I might as well just bring them in. I mean, sometimes I’ll create new guys. I’m like, well, now you’re going to get a book. But then that just adds to my to be written pile. I’m like, I need to stop doing this because my to be written pile is almost as long as my to be read pile.
[00:39:24.850] – Speaker 2
Do you think of the guy first or the girl first?
[00:39:29.410] – Speaker 3
It depends.
[00:39:30.630] – Speaker 2
Okay. Some series are based on the male and some are based on the female. Or you have single moms of Seattle as well.
[00:39:42.430] – Speaker 3
Yeah, that’s a spin off trilogy from the Single dad. So one of the heroines and the single dads, she has a sister and she’s also a single parent and sees like, the single dads of an organization because they’re a group of ten dads that play poker every Saturday night. And so she’s like, I’m going to make wine for single moms and we’re just going to drink wine and bitch about our kids and the fact that we’re not having sex. And so then she starts.
[00:40:11.830] – Speaker 2
That nice. I love that. Why did you choose Seattle? Do you know the city?
[00:40:18.160] – Speaker 3
Well, because I’m in the Pacific Northwest, so I’m like, I can just same weather and I’ve been to Seattle before. I’m like, I can’t pick something like Nebraska, where I’ve never been and then get called out continuously. And so I’m like, I’m just going to stay. But having something set in the States versus Canada sells better.
[00:40:36.670] – Speaker 2
Really?
[00:40:37.610] – Speaker 3
Oh yeah, big time. I do have folks set in Canada and they don’t set nearly as well.
[00:40:46.050] – Speaker 2
That’s so interesting. Well, I was thinking more like Vancouver Islands. Too small. Like people would start thinking that you’re writing about them just under different neighbors.
[00:40:55.110] – Speaker 3
I do have a series on Vancouver Island, my Hardy Boys, my military series is and I mean, it still sells well, but Singled Outs of Seattle sell them out of the water.
[00:41:04.910] – Speaker 2
That is so interesting. I’ve heard too, like, Joanna Penn spells like, American spelling just because otherwise she’ll get emails.
[00:41:15.870] – Speaker 3
Yeah, I do. American Spelling.
[00:41:17.630] – Speaker 2
Come on, guys. Is there a different spelling? So funny. Oh my gosh. Alright, so when you started writing but the Single Dads of Seattle, those weren’t the first five books that you had when you showed up. Okay. What books were those?
[00:41:32.770] – Speaker 3
The dark and damaged charts.
[00:41:35.130]
Yeah.
[00:41:35.580] – Speaker 2
All right, I’m looking at your series here. All right. Did you bring those out right away? Did you know about rapid release and you brought those out pretty quickly?
[00:41:45.020] – Speaker 3
Yeah, I rapidly released those once a month for several months.
[00:41:50.850] – Speaker 2
How much work was that to just.
[00:41:52.700] – Speaker 3
Like rapidly a lot because I had to find an editor and the first editor was a dud and I had to find a cover artist. And the covers are fine, but I have since found a new editor. I’ve gone through a couple and my new editor is fabulous and I found a new cover artist and everything. So I’ve learned so much since I first published through now.
[00:42:17.570] – Speaker 2
Yes. I think that part we always think is going to be quick because the book is done. Why wouldn’t it be quick? Somehow it’s not.
[00:42:26.900] – Speaker 3
I don’t understand and I’m not good at selling myself, so the social media and Pimping aspect is one of the biggest learning curves. Yeah.
[00:42:37.650] – Speaker 2
So when you first published, did you have a launch plan? Like, did these women tell you about this launch plan or did you just put them up and you’re done?
[00:42:46.360] – Speaker 3
I put them up and I just crossed my fingers because as helpful and supportive as everyone was, nobody wrote what I wrote. So we had like historical romance and cowboy and everything else. And some of them were like very established and they got in in 2012 and 2013 when the market was very different, and they made their 90 grand in a month on a book club deal, and then so they’re like, I don’t know how to do it now I have, like, four assistants. And so I was like, all right, well, thanks for the encouragement. See what I can do on my own then.
[00:43:23.510] – Speaker 2
Yes. That is a really big point, though, for anyone listening, like, the 2012 people, if you got in at that Ku point, especially with romance, like, I could kick myself for not getting on that bandwagon just with a pen name or something and just learning that process. But yeah, things have changed. Like, getting a BookBub deal, it’s great, it’s expensive, but you’re not going to make $90,000 a month anymore. The market is saturated. So you came in, like, 2017. That’s really like, the market is already pretty saturated at that point. So did you do Ku?
[00:44:02.850] – Speaker 3
I didn’t at first, and I was like, oh, I’m going to go wide. I read from a Cobo, I’m going to go wide. I just wasn’t making anything. And then finally I was like, I’m just going to suck it up and sell my soul to the devil and go to Ngku because I need to make money. And so I did. And my best selling series is still in Ku. I’ve pulled my billionaire series on my dark and damaged shirts, and they are now wide again.
[00:44:28.730] – Speaker 2
Okay, yeah, there’s like, a gap. I love Covo, I love working with them, I love their promotions, I love.
[00:44:35.720] – Kat
How easy they are.
[00:44:37.310] – Speaker 2
But there’s like a gap between Kobo and Amazon still. And those romance readers, they want their Ku, but it is cheaper for them, right?
[00:44:47.580] – Speaker 3
So you can’t really blame it is. And I have a Ku subscription, too, and I mean, the amount of times because I have Facebook ads running, the amount of times somebody’s like, oh, this is Ku, like, actually writes a comment on the ad. It was for years, like, sorry, we.
[00:45:04.100] – Speaker 2
Can’T do everything for you. As you came up with those rapid release books, and then you must have seen some success to see it, to keep writing and to keep pursuing this as or was it still just writing for pleasure?
[00:45:25.570] – Speaker 3
Success came from the reviews.
[00:45:27.280] – Speaker 2
The success is not financial.
[00:45:28.760] – Speaker 3
Like, I wasn’t making any money, okay? The success came from the reviews. The reviews are what kept me going. Like, people really enjoyed my books, and I created a really solid art team very quickly, okay? Even though it was only like, 20 people, they were just like, we love your stuff. Whatever you want to write, just give it to us. And I was like, okay, there’s at least 20 people who like my stuff. 20 people each go tell a friend, and that’s 40, and those people tell friend. And so that was what motivated me to keep writing, and also just because I enjoyed it and it was an outlet because I didn’t know if I wanted to go back to work because we get a year long maternity here in Canada. And so I was able to stay home with my daughter and yeah, and then I actually finally started making money.
[00:46:23.510] – Speaker 2
So after a year only you may.
[00:46:25.600] – Speaker 3
Still no, I mean, I wasn’t my husband who runs my books will tell you that it took longer than that.
[00:46:33.750] – Speaker 2
Always cut in there.
[00:46:35.230] – Speaker 3
I know we had an agreement that if I got ten grand in the red, I had to go get a job. And so that was really motivating for me to keep writing and try to break even on my books and then eventually get in the black. And then I started dabbling in Facebook ads, and they were doing okay. And then I finally hired a company to run my Facebook ads, and that’s what sort of took me from $1,000 a month to the $4,000 to the Charles and beyond.
[00:47:21.290] – Speaker 2
So as far as Facebook ads go, we’re making a little bit of money, but you decided to hire a company because those are pretty expensive. So at what point would you tell someone to maybe what made you start considering it?
[00:47:35.720] – Speaker 3
I guess when you have enough of a backlist that the seller is going to happen. Because you can’t use Facebook ads when you only have one or two books. Like my cowrite partner and I, because I’m co writing a small town series. We’ve been, like, discussing, when do we start running ads on the book? Because we only have one book out right now, and book two comes out in a couple of weeks. And it’s like, when do we want to start running ads? Because if you’re spending five or $10 a day, you want to make sure you make that back, but if you only have one book, they buy it and then your sales drop off, which is why I have that ten book series. And so I do make my money back, but I more break even with what I’m spending on my ads with book one, but I don’t really care because I’ve got nine more books for them.
[00:48:23.790] – Speaker 2
Right. That’s something to consider. If you break even selling one book, maybe it gets your name up there, but you’re not making money.
[00:48:32.740] – Speaker 3
You want the sell through. You need that backlist. So I recommend at least three looks before you start running any kind of ads.
[00:48:40.990] – Speaker 2
Okay. All right, that makes sense. So you’re actually co writing a book as well. How is that going? How different is that than writing on your own?
[00:48:50.710] – Speaker 3
It’s really fun. So my co write partner and I are the exact same age, and we both have two kids. She’s got two boys, I’ve got two girls. She lives in Ohio, so we’ve never actually met in person, but with video chat, like once a week. Her husband is Argentinian, and they run an Argentinian food truck.
[00:49:09.250]
Fun.
[00:49:10.140] – Speaker 3
Yeah. And so a few years ago, she posted in her reader group, what would you guys like to see from me next? And I wrote cowrite, a series with me. And so it just like snowballed. We’ve been working on this since 2019, but then the pandemic hit and she went and had another baby. And so we’re just doing this at her pace, which is fine because I have other books to write and release and it’s not a big deal. And so we built this small town, and so we write dual POV. So we each pick a character. For the first two books, she’s written Heroin and I’ve written Hero, and for the third book we’re swapping.
[00:49:48.640] – Kat
Oh, my gosh.
[00:49:49.690] – Speaker 2
Okay, so do you know, I guess, do you guys have it outlined? Do you kind of know what’s going to happen? But then whatever he says or she says, you don’t totally know, right?
[00:50:01.350] – Speaker 3
We have it outlined really well.
[00:50:03.260] – Speaker 2
Okay.
[00:50:03.600] – Speaker 3
We have some outline programs because the first book we didn’t outline, and that was a total disaster. It was so many rewrites. And so the second book we outlined, but we weren’t thorough about it. And so we had to go back and do a bunch of rewrites. And then with the third book we’re like, damn it, let’s just outline the crap out of it to the point where we have quotes of what we want them to say of certain situations and then we’ll see how this one goes.
[00:50:30.480] – Speaker 2
Yeah, because there’s two different brains seeing this story.
[00:50:36.030] – Kat
That’s really interesting.
[00:50:37.180] – Speaker 2
You guys haven’t even met.
[00:50:39.450] – Speaker 3
We’re meeting in November. Yeah, I’m flying down there because we’re doing Ram Romance authors mastermind virtually together. So I’m going to fly down there and we’re going to get an airbnb and she’s going to cook for me. And I know, I’m like, dude, you’ve been waving this black bean burger in my face for years. You need to make it. And so, yeah, I’m going to go down there and we’re finally going to meet in person.
[00:51:03.530] – Speaker 2
Oh my gosh, that sounds like so much fun. So you write contemporary erotic romance. You write small town. Like, is this sweet romance that you’re writing with her?
[00:51:15.800] – Speaker 3
No, erotic. Erotic as well. Okay. Just very small town, very quirky. It’s three brothers who are estranged from themselves, from each other and their dad, and then all of a sudden, they’re all called to this town. Their last name is Winters and they’re called to Winter Harbor, which is Set. It’s a fictitious town set on the coast of Oregon. And they’re called To Winter Harbor and they realize the town was founded by their family and the town hates their family because of what their dad and their grandfather did. And so in order to get their inheritance, which is like tons of money and tons of land and businesses and everything, all three have to live in this dilapidated family mansion for a year in order to get their inheritance and it’s like their dead father’s last ditch effort for the sons to come together.
[00:52:04.180] – Speaker 2
And that’s an amazing premise that is really great because you’re going to have a lot of heat with people hating them.
[00:52:15.330] – Speaker 3
Quirky small town people. Everything is closed on Tuesday for some random reason and it pisses these big city boys off. They’re like, I went to the hardware store and it was closed. Why on a Tuesday.
[00:52:28.870] – Speaker 2
We closed. Hodgas. Exactly.
[00:52:31.230] – Speaker 3
Yeah. So each brother finds love and there’s like brother reconciliation and there’s a family mystery.
[00:52:37.630] – Kat
Oh, fun.
[00:52:39.430] – Speaker 2
That is super fun. And then you’ve also written for anthologies. So can we talk a little bit about anthologies? Like what they are, I guess, for writers out there.
[00:52:55.030] – Speaker 3
What you have to.
[00:52:55.820] – Speaker 2
Do for them, I guess, and when or if you recommend them at all.
[00:53:01.810] – Speaker 3
So I started writing in box sets in, I guess, 2017. I ended up joining a list, aiming one so that one has a very high buy in. Buying is you put money out first and then that money is used for the cover, for the formatting, for all the ads and promotion and you’re trying to get USA Today or New York Times best selling for the set and that way all the authors in the set can put when we talk to USA Today of a seller or whatever. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I know you know what it is, but people are don’t necessarily know, which by the way.
[00:53:39.470] – Speaker 2
I think they’ve changed those rules.
[00:53:41.840] – Speaker 3
Yes, they have.
[00:53:43.140] – Speaker 2
But it was a great thing to do five years ago. So you say today bestseller and yeah, I mean, it calls to the reader, right? It’s helpful.
[00:53:53.590] – Speaker 3
That’s what didn’t make you a bummer. And then I joined the same coordinator. I joined three other boss sets that were just more for exposure and money. And I know that some people have had great success with block sets. Maybe it was a coordinator. But I had some really bad experiences and it made me really gun shy for several years and I didn’t join anything. But I really like collaborating with people and working with people and that was how I found my cowrite partner. Was we were in a boxer and anthology together and I’m like. I really want to start establishing more relationships with authors again because I was sort of feeling isolated again because of the pandemic and just being stuck at home with kids and I want to find people again. And so I joined two more and one was a charity anthology this year and it was only short stories, it was like 10,000 words, which is what I think differentiates anthologies from box sets boxes. They are full length books or novellas and anthologies are short stories. I can’t remember, I don’t know why now we’re all anthology versus box sets.
[00:55:08.040] – Speaker 3
But anyway.
[00:55:11.190] – Speaker 2
Technically there should be a difference.
[00:55:13.140] – Speaker 3
I just roll with it.
[00:55:17.490] – Speaker 2
Do you have to write a new story for a boxet or anthology? You can’t just add in a story.
[00:55:23.100] – Kat
You already have published?
[00:55:24.590] – Speaker 3
No, yeah, I always add in a new story.
[00:55:27.020] – Speaker 2
Okay.
[00:55:27.310] – Speaker 3
I was told that the best thing to do is submit book one of a series in the anthology because then people get hooked and they can go and read other things. I always submit standalone because I’m just like, well, I don’t like my book being stuck for three months, which is probably not a good idea on my part, but whenever I live in London, that was a lesson. And so with the book that I included in the charity anthology, it was only supposed to be 10,000 words and I just couldn’t stay there. And it ends up being 70. I got to find a place where I can cut this off and make it happily for now. And so I did that. And so the rest of the book comes out in September when it comes out of the anthology. And it’s a standalone, but it’s a spinoff from the single moms of Seattle. Okay, fine. The last book of the single moms of Seattle, there’s a younger woman, she’s like 21, and my heroine helps her. And so now she gets her own book because everybody’s like, she’s got such an interesting story, she needs a book.
[00:56:41.040] – Speaker 3
And I was like, yes, she does. And everybody’s like, women are going gaga about men and gray sweatpants, right? Like gray sweatpants are the lingerie for men. I’m like, is there a book that has something about gray sweatpants on the title? No, there’s not. So that’s why I’m going to call it Mr. Gray Sweatpants because women love men in gray sweatpants.
[00:57:01.360] – Speaker 2
Oh my gosh, that is perfect. Oh, I love that. Okay, so that’s coming out in September because you have to wait until that short story, I guess, comes out. How is it to write within the parameters of an anthology? Do they give you rules besides the 10,000 words? Do you find that liberating or interesting?
[00:57:27.550] – Speaker 3
At least as a writer, you usually know what you’re getting into. Like there’s romantic suspense anthologies or box sets. There’s like Christmas ones. The first one I was ever in was all vacation, and so it just had to be within those parameters. And then they have a heat level and so some are like minimum three chili peppers. So open door, you don’t have to be explicit or maximum three, like all different. And then sometimes you to have say, what does that mean? What is your version of chili peppers versus my chili peppers?
[00:58:05.760] – Speaker 2
Right?
[00:58:06.770] – Speaker 3
Are our chili peppers the same heat?
[00:58:09.330] – Speaker 2
What generation are you?
[00:58:10.760] – Speaker 3
Please, your pepper is going to burn my tongue. Yeah, so I make sure that I join anthologies and box sets that aren’t too constraining because I got too many guidelines.
[00:58:28.380] – Speaker 2
Yes, and it will break up your idea of writing within the same world.
[00:58:35.220] – Speaker 3
Right.
[00:58:35.470] – Speaker 2
Like, that would be a completely different thing, I guess, a completely different book. And that’s not really what your vision is, I guess, for Whitley Cox. Okay. It’s interesting, though, that it can take you away if you don’t find something that fits you and fits your vision. It can take you away from writing the books that are in your to write pile. Correct. So there’s always sort of that idea of, like, how much will it help you or how much will it hinder if it takes you away from writing? So I guess that’s just an individual decision you have to make each month.
[00:59:14.240] – Speaker 3
Yeah. And I mean, the anthologies don’t live forever. They usually have a three month life. And so now I am of the mindset, I’m going to write what I want to write and then figure out and then release it on my own once the three months is up and work it into a series. And so I’m in a Christmas anthology that comes out in November, and that book is part of a series. So the first book in the series comes out in October, and the second book will come out in the anthology, and then the third and fourth books will come out later next year or whatever. And it’s about four sisters, and those sisters are actually spin off from another series. And for my Hardy Boys, I wrote the last book. The heroine is a doctor and she has four younger sisters, and her youngest sister is sent out to stay with her by her parents because she’s too wild and she’s 17. And like, oh, I’m going to go meet with this social media influencer, make me a model. And then she, like, takes off and then gets kidnapped. But my readers loved her like I loved her.
[01:00:21.520] – Speaker 3
My review say, when are we getting Rayma’s book? Reima is amazing because she’s sassy. She says what she wants to say, and so everybody asks for her book. I’m like, okay, fine, I need to give this woman a book. And so her book comes out in October. And then I’m like, okay, well, there’s four sisters. This is a no brainer. I’m going to give each sister a buck.
[01:00:42.610] – Speaker 2
Right?
[01:00:44.070] – Speaker 3
Yeah.
[01:00:44.760] – Speaker 2
Okay, so you write so much. Can you tell us what your writing routine is? And I also want to get to your next pen name. So many books coming out. I’m trying to find the page for all these books. So you have the Bastard Air came out this year. How many came out this year? The bastard air came out this year. Rock the Shores came out this year.
[01:01:10.650] – Speaker 3
Mr. Grace.
[01:01:11.370] – Speaker 2
Wet Pants comes out in September. But then I’ve gotten lost. You have like, two others that also come out.
[01:01:19.810] – Speaker 3
So Love to Hate You came out in March. That’s a standalone. I wrote that one in Nano Rhimo in November. Nano Rimo for those who don’t know is National Novel Writing Month, where you try to write a 50,000 word book in 30 days, and that doesn’t sound.
[01:01:42.360] – Speaker 2
Like it’s a hard thing for you to do that. How do you do this?
[01:01:50.110] – Kat
How do you get all those words out?
[01:01:53.350] – Speaker 3
My oldest is in school now, and my youngest is in preschool, and preschool is three days a week. It’s nine to two, and Tuesday, Thursday, it’s nine to 1130. And so I write when they’re in school, and then I write on the weekends, too. And I’m very prolific. I write very fast.
[01:02:12.660] – Speaker 2
So do you know what’s going to happen in the book then? Do you outline? Is it in your head or is.
[01:02:19.580] – Speaker 3
It in my head? Like, I have an outline for the book I’m writing right now, and I’m not sticking to it at all, but it at least just, like, keeps the ideas flowing, and I’m constantly writing down what needs to happen and reminders and everything. And for my single dad, I like to outline on poster board. And so I like poster board, and I divide it into all the series, and then I do, like, little plot points and character personalities and physical description, and so I just refer back to my poster board and I outline sort.
[01:02:57.570] – Speaker 2
Of yeah, well, it keeps you, like, somehow on track, but B, it gets out at least the seed of the story. And a lot of times the seed is not what the full story will be. It might change a lot, but it helps you to then not have to write the 40,000 words of that seed and then just scrap it, start over again. And this is all things we learn as we write. So do you exclusively write when the.
[01:03:30.740] – Kat
Kids are at school?
[01:03:31.960] – Speaker 2
Like, you don’t do any momwork, you don’t do any housework, or you try, at least.
[01:03:37.470] – Speaker 3
I sometimes go to the gym, but usually I do the gym in the evenings, but sometimes I will go to the gym for yoga. But I set my own deadlines. But when I’m on deadline, I’m like, okay, I got to get this done, and I write. And now this summer, we just bought a house in June, and so this summer has been, like, chaotic, but now we have the yard, and I’m like, Get out in the yard. I’m writing so hot. They’re like, can we just play downstairs? I was like, yeah, but leave me alone. Yes.
[01:04:10.040] – Speaker 2
Tablets. I don’t care. Please. Yes. I think that one of the biggest things for writers is, like, that concentration, taking that time, right? So, like, your social media and your newsletter and all that stuff, do you do that at a completely different time? Like, do you have specifically this is book writing time versus the other writing we have to have?
[01:04:34.780] – Speaker 3
I try. I have an assistant now, thank God, because social media just gives me anxiety. And so. I’m like, can you do my graphics and schedule all that stuff for me and make my Tik tok videos? Because I hate TikTok. And so she does that for me. I do my newsletter because it’s very personal. And I write stuff like little Anecdotes and I include pictures of, like, what’s going on and stuff like that. It does. But I think it makes the difference about being connected to your readers and stuff like that versus just having somebody else do it. And they don’t put that personal touch right. The mindless stuff. Like the newsletters, I’ll try to do in the evening. So my office is downstairs, so I’ll bring my laptop upstairs and my husband and I, once we settle down for the evening, to veg on the couch for like an hour and a half before we go to bed. I’ll put the TV on and I’ll do my newsletter and fiddle with stuff like that when I try to do it.
[01:05:39.270] – Speaker 2
So you do try to separate out. This is book writing time. This is all the other doesn’t always work.
[01:05:44.700] – Speaker 3
Sometimes I forgot about that. Do it.
[01:05:53.490] – Speaker 2
Or like me yesterday. Oh, today’s Thursday. Yes. At 200. Wait. Yes, it happens. When did you start writing another pen name? Because as if you didn’t have enough things to do, you started writing under Natalie Sloan, which is a great name, by the way.
[01:06:16.530] – Speaker 3
Well, when we had our first daughter, natalie was like one of the two top choice names. And then she was born and she just didn’t look like Natalie. I still love the name. Her name is Grace. And she was just like, farting and pooping everywhere. I’m like, if you’re like me, you’re going to be super clutchy. You need some Grace in your life. You are great. She just looks like and then I got super fixated on one syllable names. I’m like, second child needs to have one syllable name too. So Natalie was out of the picture, and so we named her Claire. And I’m like, I still want Natalie in my life somehow.
[01:06:49.930] – Speaker 2
No more babies.
[01:06:51.450] – Speaker 3
No more babies. No. I did tell them yesterday or the other day when they were fighting, I’m like, kill each other. I don’t care. I’ll just make more babies.
[01:07:00.210] – Speaker 2
We like to do this every once in a while where we go out for dinner and we’re like, we have news. And they’re like, no, we don’t believe you anymore. You’ve done it too many times. Wait, really? Three? Okay. They’re all scared.
[01:07:16.110] – Speaker 3
My husband sniffed. So the girls don’t know that though, because they don’t know what they are.
[01:07:19.760] – Speaker 2
No, don’t tell them. You need to be able to scare them. I have only girls as well, so we always threaten that we’re going to get a boy.
[01:07:26.260] – Speaker 3
Well, they want more. They want more. Like they’re seven and four. I’m like, no, we’re done.
[01:07:33.440] – Speaker 2
See, mine are teenagers. They’ll be like, you’re going to ruin my life. I’ll have to babysit. All right, anyway, back to Natalie. So you decided to create Natalie for yourself?
[01:07:45.620] – Speaker 3
Yes. Okay. And Sloan just has a really cool last name. It sounds horrible to say. My grandma died, and this was a couple of years ago. I loved her. She was old. It’s fine. And so my dad and my uncle, who are the executors, were having a big yard sale at their property, at my grandma grandpa’s property, and we’re selling off everything. And they asked me to come up and, like, man the cash register. And so it was like four hour drive. And I drove up on the Canada Thanksgiving weekend, which is the second weekend in October, and it was a four hour drive. And all of a sudden, this plot for a series just hit me in the head, and it just wouldn’t leave. And it was reverse harem, which is one woman and multiple men. And I really love dystopian post apocalyptic stuff like Hunger Game, Divergent, that kind of stuff. And I’m like, I don’t know if there’s any of those out there. What if there was this huge virus that ransacked the world, but it took out more of the female population than it did the male population?
[01:08:55.870] – Speaker 2
We get all these men, so we.
[01:08:57.740] – Speaker 3
Get all these men. I was like, Somebody’s going to write this. I guess it’s me, but I’m like, I want to keep them separate. Whitley Cox will always be male, female, contemporary, and adolescence will only ever be reverse harem. And so these books are long.
[01:09:18.930] – Speaker 2
Really?
[01:09:19.790] – Speaker 3
Well, the first one that came out in this month is, like, 140,000 words. 135. And I’m on book two right now, and I’m already at 95,000. And my editor was like, when you get this to me? And I was like, I don’t know.
[01:09:36.310] – Speaker 2
So they’re mostly they’re reverse heroin, but they’re very much a dystopian thriller type.
[01:09:43.090] – Speaker 3
Because I wrote that long torture scene yesterday that I had to actually email my editor, being like, are you okay with this?
[01:09:51.610] – Speaker 2
Very different good idea to get a different pen name.
[01:09:54.750] – Speaker 3
Yeah.
[01:09:55.500] – Speaker 2
Okay. That sounds really interesting. As far as, like, the virus thing, has it been selling well? Are people like advertising?
[01:10:07.210] – Speaker 3
I say that it is like, Hunter Games meets Divergent meets The Handmaid’s Tale means you porn because it’s group sex. It’s poor people having sex. The reviews have been great. However, a lot of people are like, it’s very scary because this is actually happening. Yes, because one of my close friends is a climate specialist and worked for Environment Canada. And now she has moved to New Zealand with her husband and now works for Environment New Zealand. But I went to her, I’m like, so 300 years from now, what’s going to happen? And she’s like, well, this is all going to be underwater, okay? She’s like, Anything basically, like, below, like, 30ft or whatever, 40ft can be underwater. So all these cabins and islands and everything.
[01:10:58.010] – Speaker 2
We’re going to be floating around down there.
[01:10:59.910] – Speaker 3
You’re going to be dead. We don’t know me. Then how are we going to eat? I know.
[01:11:06.850] – Speaker 2
We won’t. We won’t be around.
[01:11:09.810] – Speaker 3
I took some creative liberties, obviously, but yeah, I changed the geography of the land because of rising sea levels and everything. I made everything hotter. Yeah.
[01:11:21.190] – Speaker 2
Awesome. That sounds amazing. So is this going to be a long series? I mean, they’re long books.
[01:11:29.490] – Speaker 3
It’s a trilogy right now. Okay. And I think I might keep it as that. And I want to write other, like, reverse hair. I’m like am I Devil in Paranormal? So, yeah, natalie Smith will only ever be reversed harem, and I will never have a person on her covers. So it’s just flames and fire on the covers of these three books. And then I might do, like, flowers or dripping in Blood rose or something like that, but just to keep them very distinct. I’m very transparent about being both. Like I built this street cred as Whitley Cox. Might as well ride my own coattails. Yes, because some people like to cross genres other people don’t like. I’ve had some of my very loyal Whitley Cox readers say, I’m sorry, this is not my jam. I don’t like reverse harm. I don’t like dystopian. I’m like dude, I get it. I don’t like certain tropes either. So for genres, I’m fine with that. But there is such a huge reverse harem and dark reverse harem readership out there that I’m like, I want these people to buy my books.
[01:12:33.990] – Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s becoming bigger and bigger. I mean, it was probably big within the romance community already, but it’s gotten out of the romance community now to the point where everyone’s like, what is this? What is this? So that’s when you know you’ve really made it. Like, if other people outside of romance readers want those books, it is time to write those books. So do you work on two books at the same time? Like a Natalie Sloan and a Whitley Cox.
[01:13:01.170] – Speaker 3
Only when I’m co writing. So I’ll write my Natalie’s phone, and then when my cowrite partner finishes her chapter, then send it to me, and then I’ll write, but I don’t have one of my own Whitley Cox books and Anatoly Sloan books going on.
[01:13:19.350] – Speaker 2
All right. You try to keep it focused. All right? Very good. Let’s see. I found the list again. August 16. The asshole air is going okay. The bastard air is the winter harbor Is that the first one? So these are the guys that have to live in a dilapidated mansion. I’m going to have to probably read this. And then the asshole air is the second one.
[01:13:44.930]
Yes.
[01:13:45.440] – Speaker 2
Okay. So that one comes out in two weeks as far as when this episode gets published. All right. And then Mr. Gray sweatpants come September 10. And then Raymond story comes out in october. Oh, my gosh, you’re amazing. You are very prolific. So if anyone needs something to read, you have at least 40 books. Probably by the time they get done with one book, you’ll have more. So where can people find you and your books? Sign up for your newsletter and all that?
[01:14:17.010] – Speaker 3
My website. So Whitleyclockscom or Nataliezlowncom? Instagram as Whitley. Cox. Username is Cox. Whitley. And then my billionaires on my Dark and Damaged charts are wide. They’re on Radish, which is the serial app, so you get paid per episode. So I broken the series down into episodes, and it’s sort of like a TV show, but for reading. And then they’re also like Combo and Apple and Barnes and Noble and whatever else. And then Single Dads and all the other ones are on Amazon and Kindle unlimited.
[01:14:59.330] – Kat
All right, perfect.
[01:15:00.750] – Speaker 2
You can get on to two different newsletters, I guess. So you’re not at least Whitley Cox.
[01:15:06.510] – Speaker 3
Yeah.
[01:15:08.430] – Kat
Well, thank you so much for coming.
[01:15:10.020] – Speaker 2
On and telling us. I think you’re going to inspire the rest of us to go.
[01:15:13.570] – Speaker 3
Right.
[01:15:17.550] – Speaker 2
Thank you so much, Whitley, for coming.
[01:15:19.680] – Speaker 3
Thank you for having me.
[01:15:28.870] – Kat
Hey, you’re still listening? Since you are, could you do me a favor and head over to the app that you’re listening to this episode on and hit the subscribe button and then rate and review the show? It would really help the Pencils Olympic podcast get out into the world. And if you’re enjoying the podcast, well, then there might be more people out there who would enjoy it as well. If you want to find out more about me, you can head over to Catcalledwell.com. I have my story over there, my books, my interactive journals, my one on one coaching information, and information on my creative writing community Membership Group. If you’re looking to write a book or you are a writer and you just want to find out more about how to write, how to publish, how to format, how to market, and all the things that go into being an author these days, check out the Membership group. There is a 14 free day trial that you can try it out, get into the Masterminds, find out all the goodies that we are talking about in the group. I would love to see you there.