Today we’re going to look at the Big 5 personality types to help us define and refine who our characters are (and how they should react to different forms of stress.) You can find the notes for the show here: https://katcaldwell.com/Big5
Want to check out ProWritingAid? Get there through my affiliate link here: https://prowritingaid.com/?afid=21405
Want to support the podcast?
You can support the podcast at https://pencilsandlipstick.com/support-the-show/
Sign up for my writers’ newsletter to learn more about the craft of writing, know when my workshops are and be the first to get exclusive information on my writing retreats. https://www.subscribepage.com/katcaldwellnewsletter
Want more information on my books, author swaps, short stories and what I’m reading? Sign up for my readers’ newsletter. You can always ask me writing questions on instagram @pencilsandlipstick or on Twitter @PencilLipstick
TRANSCRIPTION BEGINS HERE:
Kat
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Pencils & Lipstick. I’m Kat Caldwell. This is Episode 175, I believe. I am recording this ahead of time. As I said, it is now April and the podcast is entering a new phase. So we’re going to do interviews separately from teaching, I guess is the easiest way to say it. So today is not an interview day, but today is a character talk day. We are going to talk characters because characters are the lifeblood of your story. They are the reason that we read stories. They are the reason people get addicted to series. We want to know about the character, what’s going to happen? Who is Katniss going to choose to spend the rest of her life with? We want to see this stuff, even if they’re not humans, if they’re dogs, cats, aliens, doesn’t matter, we want to know what’s going to happen. So characters make up our stories. The plot line is important. It’s important that things happen to create a story, right? But what I want to talk to you guys about today is the importance of understanding your character’s personality. Now, I hope that I can get Claire Taylor on here one day to talk about the enneagram. But today we’re going to talk about the five big personality types. And I think that this is a good place to start because it’s not super complicated. It makes a lot of sense, at least it does to me. And I hope that I can have it make sense to you by the end of this podcast. Before we get into the big five personality traits, let’s talk about supporting the show. So you can support the show by subscribing on the app that you are listening to, by sharing it with your fellow writer friends or reader friends if they want to hear the interviews. Anybody who is writing or thinking about writing, I think, will benefit from the show. And the awesome guests that we have coming on the show to talk to us about all their life experience, their software, their marketing, their writing journeys, their writing routines, all those things. We have a great backlist of tons of authors, from new authors to best selling authors, to authors that have been in it for years. Last week, we had David Rocklin, and he is a traditionally published… We talk a lot about indie publishing here, but it’s okay if you want to go trad publish. We welcome you here at Pencils & Lipstick. If you want to support the show in another step, you can go to buymeacoffee.com/pencilslipstick, and you can support it monetarily. There’s a couple of little prizes over there that you get. You get more access to me. We’ll be setting up live question times soon, but you can actually message me over there as well. And it’s just a big help to the show. I really like the podcast. I think that it’s fun to do, but it does take a lot of time and we got to host it somewhere. So everything in this world, as the world starts turning in a who knows what directions, like we’re spinning top, right? Everything is getting more expensive. But all that said, it’s weird to talk about money as an artist, as somebody who writes. And we always just want people to read our stuff. But at the same time, that is the exchange on… money is the way that we say good job, really, a lot of times. I want to read your book. I want to listen to your music. I want to listen to your podcast. And it’s just a way to see the value. So if I bring you value, if my guests are bringing you value and you want to bring monetary value back to the show, please head on over to buymeacoffee.com. The link is in the show notes below. You can also support the show by joining my Reader’s Newsletter or my Writer’s Newsletter. And there you will get exclusive access to my work, whether it’s my books as a reader or whether it’s my writing tips as a writer. And a lot of the things that I talk about on the show, I go into more depth in my newsletter for writers. So if you want more access to these tips and these hints that we’re talking about on the show, you’re going to want to sign up for my writers newsletter. And that is where you’ll get first access to the writing retreat information and the workshops. We have the Write With Me online writing retreat coming up May 16th and 17th. I’m going to talk a lot about it before I open up the payment portal for it. We’re getting together some bonus things and I’m getting together a giveaway for the first people that sign up. It’s going to be really exciting. But just keep in mind, May 16th and 17th, it is a retreat. It will be $97. We are going to have eight workshops for each day. It’s going to be amazing. There’s going to be time to sprint, an open sprint room on Zoom. We’re going to get together and share with each other about our writing. And you will have access to all eight workshops for the rest of time until the world implodes, under that price. So I have people coming in, the model, I will just tell you that I will have with those who are coming in to teach, they will be paid a little bit because I think that we all need to be paid for our work. So that is why it’s not free. We are going to switch up the model here a little bit. They’re bringing you not just a talk, but they’re there to teach you. And they’re going to be about an hour, hour and a half long each. And they’re going to be really accessible. They’ll be there to talk to you through questions that you have. And everything that is going to be taught, you’ll be able to implement it right away. That is the whole goal for this. So it’s a little bit different than an in-person writing retreat. And by the fact that in person you’re there and you’re immersed in your own writing. And I’m just there to help you if you need help or answer a question. This is going to be learning and being able to pinpoint the issues that might be coming up in your manuscript or to better your editing skills or your scene skills or your world building skills or your mindset as an author and then to implement those immediately. And that’s why it’s only two days. It’s going to be intensive, but it’s going to be so much fun, and I’m very excited about it. So talked about that for too long.
Kat
You can also find the videos, even me now speaking, you could look at me in my new beautiful office. I still am waiting for some furniture to go there and for some shelves to go there. But I painted, so if you want to see it, get on YouTube. It’s Pencils&Lipstick YouTube channel. You can see the videos of other interviews as well. You can see people as they’re being interviewed and you can see how hard it is for me to sit still. That’s what I noticed when I watch those videos and I edit them.
Kat
What else are we going to talk about today? What else do I have to tell you? I think that’s everything. So yeah, if you want to support the show, we would love it if you would share around to everyone. Support the people who come on the show, follow them on their social media. If you’d like the sound of their books or whatever, sign up for their newsletters, buy their books. If you think that they’re awesome books, if there’s your genre of reading, definitely support them as well.
Kat
So today we’re going to talk about the five big personality types. And again, the enneagram is a great thing to dive into as well, and it will help your characters and you writing your characters. But today we’re going to go into the five big ones, which are openness, consciousness, extraversion versus introversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism. Now, one of the reasons people don’t like the big five is because of that last one, neuroticism. Because if you’re an 80s kid or a 90s kid, we all loved saying how somebody was neurotic, right? And we use it in a derogatory sense. But I don’t think that we should let our childhood trauma keep us from science. So we’re going to talk about that. Should we go backwards, then? We’ll just start with neuroticism. Sorry. So neuroticism might sound a little bit weird. Oh, she’s so neurotic. But it’s really about how your character responds to stress. And so I love playing around with stressful situations with my characters because sometimes when we’re writing a scene, our characters can come out really flat. And I think it’s because we don’t really know how they are supposed to act when stress hits them. So your plot should have some stress happening to them. And whatever it is, whether it’s big, whether it’s minor, whether it’s family drama, where it’s just mental stress, or it’s terrorists have taken over the bank where your wife works, diehard stress, these are different things. So if your character is in a thriller, a lot of times the CIA, MI6 people are going to be very cool under pressure and very cool with stress. And that’s usually contrasted by a rather neurotic, either man or woman, who’s very freaked out about the stress. I think about, what is that Indiana Jones one where the actress is just freaking out about everything? She’s very neurotic, so she’s not handling her stress well. You could also say that it describes the depth of the emotions that they’re willing to express when situations arise or their moodiness. Women tend to be more neurotic than men, higher on the neuroticism scale than men. It’s not always true. And in fact, you can play around with this with your characters depending on their genders. Especially in comedies, comedies really play up the neuroticism. People who are high on the neuroticism scale usually swing hot or cold. When traffic hits, I swing really high on neuroticism. I get really angry and lots of words come out of my mouth. So we’re going to be more emotional, probably more freaked out, maybe not so cool headed under pressure. And it’s weird, though, when situations hit my kids, I become very low on the neuroticism scale. I’m very cool headed. I call the ambulance or get the medicine. I can think and not freak out in those situations. So those who are lower are less emotional. They’re more stable in that environment, in that stress, and they might even thrive under the stress. So I’m thinking more thriller characters, they are thriving under this stress. And in fact, that’s almost an addiction for them. So even maybe your detective is addicted to looking for the crimes and the mystery and solving it. And maybe when the mystery is done and it’s solved, they almost enter depression because they aren’t getting their dopamine hit because they’re just thriving under that stress. Not that that’s mentally good, but it’s good to think about this in our books. And especially if you’re writing a family drama, you’re going to need a cast of characters that are not all highly neurotic or not all low on the neurotic. So we need to have different contrast. And a lot of times, the most stereotypical is that the wife is high on the neuroticism scale and the man is lower. But you can play with that. You don’t have to go with stereotypes. It’s more fun if you don’t. And then you’re going to need the children and the spouses or whatever that family drama is. Maybe it’s sibling drama and they don’t get along because one is high and one is low. And this isn’t that they have to be constantly, I’m waving my hands a lot, freaking out. But having a family stress situation come up and just noticing how you want them to react differently. And this is, I think it’s highly effective to go out and look at people. During COVID, people watching was amazing. Our whole society in America was super high in neuroticism during COVID. We were just very emotionally unstable, for good reason. But still, it was quite obvious during that time. So make sure that you’re going out and people watching and being able to have your characters stick with whatever scale of neuroticism you give them.
Kat
Let’s go on to agreeableness. So this is about the degree to which the person can trust and be kind and show affection for the people around them. I’m quite low on agreeableness. You’re going to get to know me so well today. I do not trust easily. I can be kind, but I don’t show affection very easily. You have to really know me. You have to be a very close friend to me to show affection. In fact, I’ve been accused of being very cold, being very standoffish, looking a bit snobby. I’ve been accused of a lot of things. I’m just not very affectionate. In fact, Texas changed that up a lot for me because the Texans hug all the time. I also don’t want to be excluded from the group, so I learned to hug. But I always joked from the time I was a teenager that I had a bubble. So if that helps you understand this, if you’re an 80s or 90s kid, the bubble. Where did that even come from? Step back, you’re in my bubble. Remember that? You’re in my space. So that’s not very agreeable. Let’s see, in Devil Wears Prada, Miranda is not an agreeable person. She is not open. She does not trust anyone to get their job done. She is not kind and she doesn’t show affection of her. So that’s a bit way low on agreeableness. And so you have a skill as always. So those who are high in agreeableness are very interested in people. They don’t have to work to be interested in what people are doing and to hear their stories. They feel a great deal of empathy. So if you’re very high in agreeableness, you’re constantly empathetic. And in fact, those who are low in agreeableness, it irks us when people are overly empathetic. And they’re always helping people. So if you’re very high in agreeableness, let’s not talk about ourselves, let’s talk about our characters. Your character would be constantly helping people when maybe they’re getting stepped on. There’s always good impact to all these things. So they’re helping people, maybe nobody helps them, but because they’re known as a helper. They’re interested in people, so they’re actually confused when their friends who are low on the agreeableness scale don’t ask about them and don’t have empathy for them. So we always have these pros and cons in these personalities. Those who are low in agreeableness tend not to really like emotion, but then they make great surgeons and detectives and CIA guys. They’re very competitive. If you watch Drive to Survive, is that what it is? The Formula One on Netflix?
Kat
Oh, man, they’re very competitive. And the guys, well, I know it’s reality television, so it’s like, who knows how much is made up, but they’ll say some crazy stuff that’s not PG-rated, so I won’t say it here. But they are just so highly competitive that they’re not agreeable to their fellow racers. Who’s that dance mom lady? Abby? Yeah, she’s not agreeable. She’s very low on the agreeable. She doesn’t care what you think. She’s just going to have these kids dance. My middle child’s watching Mance moms. Okay, she’s fascinated. So those who are low on agreeableness, don’t always notice when help is needed. So it’s not that they don’t want to help, but they won’t always notice that their help is needed. And obviously this could cause some conflict. Having a romance where somebody is agreeable and then somebody is not agreeable, like very low, like on the scale, like very opposite on the scale. Talk about tension.
Kat
All right, one thing that we know extraversion and introversion, this is probably talked about a lot and you probably know who you are. Are you an extrovert? Are you an introvert? But let me go over it again just to refresh your memory or if somebody isn’t American and this isn’t talked about all the time in their country. This basically describes where a person draws their energy from. An extrovert draws their energy from being around people and talking and being social and are typically pretty assertive people. It makes me exhausted just thinking about it. This is my husband. My husband cannot be quiet. When he used to walk to work, he would call. He would make two phone calls per walk. He talks to his mom all the time. He talks to his brother. He’s always talking to people. I have to force myself to call people. Introverts like me and many writers can find being social very tiring. And so we regain our energy from being alone and going and sitting in our favorite chair and in our favorite office and maybe in the corner. So we draw energy and we’re reenergized by being quieter and more by ourselves. And I say quieter, I probably shouldn’t say that. This doesn’t have anything to do with how you are as a person when you’re with people. I’m actually pretty, I’m not very shy when I’m with people, even though it’s using a lot of my energy. I’m very capable of talking to people, being bubbly and being smiley and being with people as much as I’m low on the agreeableness, I’m actually pretty agreeable. And this is why people don’t like these big five, because it gets a little bit confusing. So it doesn’t necessarily mean how you’re acting. Introverts aren’t always afraid to be in public. That’s not what that means. It just means where we get our energy from.
Kat
All right, conscientiousness. This one might not be something that you know a whole lot about, but this talks about how much a person thinks of others. So your characters who think a lot about others, they set their goals, they control their impulses. I know this isn’t just describing adulthood. This is actually describing a personality trait. Those high in conscientiousness are organized, they plan ahead. So they’re planners. And a lot of times they’re planners because they’re thinking about others. They’re thinking about their boss needs to know, and their nanny needs to know. Who has a nanny? I don’t know. That just came into my head. The teachers need to know. And they always have their blinker on because the car behind them needs to know. They understand and live by the idea of delayed gratification. So these ultra disciplined people, they’re not just disciplined, they’re conscientious. Those who are low in conscientiousness, dislike structure. This tends to be a lot of creatives, right? They sometimes procrastinate or don’t fulfill assignments and have a lower impulse control. And so those who are lower, naturally in conscientiousness, need to develop that self discipline. But this goes into characters too. There’s a good movie. These just pop into my head. And so I never have them right in front of me. But there’s a great one, where it’s two sisters and one is very conscientious, and one is very low on the conscientious scale. And the conflict between the two of them. There’s always that, oh, you were mom’s favorite. Oh, you were dad’s favorite. And they’re trying to understand each other. And they have a hard time understanding each other because one is very disciplined, she controls her impulses, and she resents controlling so much her own impulses because she thinks she’s doing it for her sister when really it’s just part of her character. And then the little sister doesn’t control her impulses. She’s very flighty and unorganized. And then it goes into even more than that. The little sister, it turns out she’s dyslexic and she can’t read very well. And so you have to be careful a little bit on what are our social impacts on the character and what is their personality. But these are a good place to start, right?
Kat
And so our last one of the big five is openness. And this is about the imagination or the insight that a person has. Those who are high in openness have various interests and are very curious. This is a lot of writers. This is probably you. Those low in openness dislike change, they dislike new ideas, and they dislike theoretical concepts. They want to think that the world is how the world is right here in front of them. They don’t want too much insight. They don’t want a lot of imagination. They just want the black and white, and that’s how they want life to be, and that’s how they want to see life. And that’s called openness. So as you can see, these five are the way that you can create conflict. But what I really want to warn you with is choosing where your character is on the scale of these big five and then sticking with it. So understanding how you want them to react and then not changing it throughout the story.
Kat
I want to warn you, when I read manuscripts, and I’ve read quite a few just in the last six months since I’ve been certified. A lot of times when there’s a character shift that doesn’t make sense, it’s because they’re shifting out of the personality that the writer gave them in the beginning. So the reader is going to trust you that you know your characters and that you’ve written them in a way that is going to stay consistent. It doesn’t mean that they can’t change. Of course, they’re going to change. That’s what story is about. They’re going to see more things in the world and things are going to be revealed to them. But their personality can’t change a ton. So maybe they’re not very open, but they understand through your story and the plot that the world isn’t always black and white. But that doesn’t mean that they suddenly become a super imaginative, super insightful, super curious person. They’re still low on openness, even if they’re cracked open a bit and moved a little bit further from the end of the scale. But they’re not going to just completely change their personality.
Kat
So I’m going to have a downloadable list that you can print out and have. You can find a lot about this on Google, just the big five personalities. There’s tons of information out there. There’s lots of research, it’s been over 100 years, I think, since they’ve looked into this. Again, if you’re into enneagram, that is a great tool as well. I just want to bring this to you so that you can maybe bring a new aspect to your characters in your story.
Kat
So that is all for this week of the Pencils & Lipstick podcast. There is no interview this week. I hope that you enjoyed it. Be sure to subscribe on whatever app you’re listening to. Share it with your friends. Join us over at buymeacoffee.com and support the show monetarily if you can. Be sure to sign up for my writers newsletter and my readers newsletter to know all about the Kickstarters that I’ll be having, the books that are coming out, and the workshops and writing retreats that are coming as well. You guys have a great week.